Are there any plans to increase the # of provinces?

[Cerber]

IMHO current AoD map need some tweaking, and maybe few (less than 10) more provinces - too many provinces will make second HOI 3.
For me personaly is annoying to see 'empty' provinces in most populated areas of the world (especialy europe -eg. Germany) no manpower, no IC, no resources, just useless land.
Also conquest of huge provinces (eg. siberia) should happend faster, in such provinces is enough to seize few important cites (if any are there).

 

[Titan79]

Thanks Titan79, that was my intention - no big remaking, just tweaking.
I mean, there is no need to focus on very detailed map like in HoI 3, but it would be great to make some progress compared to HoI 2 with map. It is a matter of good balance we could find, I hope.

I agree. I too wouldn't like too many provinces. Something like what you've drawed in that example would be good IMO.

NOTE: Personally, I would add some more provinces in Finland. Ah and I am going to take a look at France and Spain to make similar example... If You don't mind

Well, I never said nor wrote I'm going to make such a map, so for what I care I absolutely don't mind . Jokes apart, yes, the first thing would be to understand where and which provinces should be added.

There are 2 mapmods in the making to my knowledge.

The E3 map
and Mexbuilds

The real problem by adding provinces is that all the events need to be checked and possibly adjusted.
So making the map is only 50% of the job

If you really want a new map, why not ask if you can help the respective mods?

Yep, that's true - but from my point of view the fact is that both those maps, although undeniably good, divert a bit from the original map's look. This of course can be good for some people, I understand that, but I think vanilla HoI2's map has many good sides I'd like to keep (I'm referring especially to the borders' shape).

So: I know it would require a lot of work, and I'm not flattering myself thinking this map will ever be done. Anyway, I'll go a bit deeper into the question and see at least how it could look when finished. Then, if there were enough people supporting that idea, it might be taken into consideration to make it... can't promise anything though.

 

[Mjarr]

Personally I wouldn't mind that much (especially after playing HoI3 SeFi lately with few mods) if they would add HoI3 style map. I know it's not going to happen, but still

 

[unmerged(115311)]

I have nothing against extra provs, but the more provs we have, the more complicated the game gets for the AI. I mean just look how 'stupid' the AI in HoI3 can actually be with the 10k provs.

A couple of provs in France or something should be manageable though. Hmm, on another thought adding more provs to France would be pure genious! ...Basically the German player could manouver the more realistic panzer columns through the Ardennes. The French could be boosted to a more historical level (they are nerfed atm). The Allies could even outnumber the Germans as historically, but now with the extra provs, the German tanks could actually manouver more and pull off a really cool Dunkerque-Belgian encirclement.

But I'd reckon it's best to keep province modding within map mods. Let the players who want simple AoD play the simple map, and those who want a more complex map, just download a mod. The E3 map for AoD seems to be working, however there are still some small adjustements to do like infra, events and the AI.

 

[Fürstbischof]

I have nothing against extra provs, but the more provs we have, the more complicated the game gets for the AI. I mean just look how 'stupid' the AI in HoI3 can actually be with the 10k provs.

While adapting the ai events to the E3 map I have found several examples of quite complicated province triggers which I had to expand to keep them functional with the larger map. And the ai files will use those en masse... If you want the ai to behave as best as it can on the larger map you have to instruct it properly. But it will never be as good as a human player.

(..)
But I'd reckon it's best to keep province modding within map mods. Let the players who want simple AoD play the simple map, and those who want a more complex map, just download a mod. The E3 map for AoD seems to be working, however there are still some small adjustements to do like infra, events and the AI.

Are you sure that I haven't adapted the AOD events to the E3 map? I'm quite sure that I have uploaded them two weeks ago...

The ai files have to be done, that's correct, but in the light of the announced improvements to the ai it would be imo pointless to adapt these now and start 3 weeks later from scratch. If you can tolerate some small inconsistencies you can already play with the E3 map, it's fully playable.

 

[Fürstbischof]

I would like to see more provinces in AoD. I really hoped that AoD was going to have a bit more detailed map especially in some regions like Poland, Eastern France, Spain or Germany (maybe Finland too). There is no need to make map similar to HoI 3, just add some provinces where they would be strongly needed.
There are many discussions on the forum how to make this game more challenging or historical while in fact the best way in many cases would be adding more provinces in some parts of map.

There is a picture with my (example sample) proposal for improved AoD map:

Don't you know the E3 map? The E3 map was made by mumia. I have uploaded a screenie for you which shows that most of your prayers have already been answered.

 

[Fürstbischof]

+1

I like really much this degree of map modification. It doesn't upset the original one's scheme neither introducing too many new provinces, nor needlessly twisting the borders (which aren't too jagged and thus remain recognizable at a glance), nor creating too small provinces - three problems which other maps sometimes experience, IMHO.

Additional 8-10 provinces could be added using the same philosophy in other key areas like the Ardennes, Normandy/N France, and so on. Such one would be a map which adds a fair amount of tactical possibilities without the need of too many (graphical) changes.

I'd keep it into serious account. Good job Bosman, gratuluję [congrats]!

Yeah this is exactly what I'm talking about. Just split a few provinces in two, no need to redo borders on anything. I remember one of the HOI2 MP groups I played in had a vanilla mod that split the France/Benelux/Germany border into 8 provinces from 6, so if it's possible to do it in HOI2 then surely it must be possible in AOD.

mumia has also expanded this border area. Please check the screenie if it's acceptable for you.

 

[Titan79]

mumia has also expanded this border area. Please check the screenie if it's acceptable for you.

[image]

Very good. Now it would be nice to have still two shots, one for Normandy and one for central-eastern Germany, if I'm not asking for too much

 

[Fürstbischof]

Germany

[URL=http://img43.imageshack.us/i/e3germany.png/] [/URL]

 

[Fürstbischof]

Normandy

 

[bosman]

@ Fürstbischof
This is quite nice map (I will definitely try it), although I would personally prefer original style of map (colors, shapes, etc.), anyway there need to be some more provinces especially in eastern France - I will post an example tomorrow.

 

[unmerged(115311)]

While adapting the ai events to the E3 map I have found several examples of quite complicated province triggers which I had to expand to keep them functional with the larger map. And the ai files will use those en masse... If you want the ai to behave as best as it can on the larger map you have to instruct it properly. But it will never be as good as a human player.

Hmm, indeed. The whole thing of having more provs vs AI performance is a pretty interesting science. Adding provs straight away would be fatal for the performance of the AI. However if we had expert AI modders who would do a huge job on the E3 map AIs, we could actually have a more sophisticated AI, that had more alternatives with the extra provs, and could outsmart a human. So in theory you might be able to actually improve the AI with extra provs, but in practice won't happen, unless some 10 fanatical AI modders show up! :rofl:

Are you sure that I haven't adapted the AOD events to the E3 map? I'm quite sure that I have uploaded them two weeks ago...

The ai files have to be done, that's correct, but in the light of the announced improvements to the ai it would be imo pointless to adapt these now and start 3 weeks later from scratch. If you can tolerate some small inconsistencies you can already play with the E3 map, it's fully playable.

I tried the mod before and after your fix. Now don't get me wrong, the map is great and 99% finished, only some fine tuning left. Like the last time I checked, there were 100% infra provs all over China (since those new provs were sea provs b4, I guess). Also those provs are plains, and have unsual weatherpatterns, which haven't yet been defined. Also have you can't have already fixed all the rare peace-events? Bitter peace, revolters, all that stuff would take ages.

Eventually tuning with a lot of mods, AI modding, map modding, I started getting some errors. So I made a new E3 folder, but something went awfully wrong with that one too. But I'll blame my modmixing and rushed reinstallation, so don't worry about that one.

 

[Fürstbischof]

@ Fürstbischof
This is quite nice map (I will definitely try it), although I would personally prefer original style of map (colors, shapes, etc.), anyway there need to be some more provinces especially in eastern France - I will post an example tomorrow.

You can find here in the forum several colorscales.csv. I'm atm testing three of them, but I haven't decided which of them I like most.

Kudos to mumia! He's the maker of the map and I hope that he'll continue his work. Since several restrictions of the map design have been lifted there is room for improvement. So your wishes might come true.

 

[Fürstbischof]

Hmm, indeed. The whole thing of having more provs vs AI performance is a pretty interesting science. Adding provs straight away would be fatal for the performance of the AI. However if we had expert AI modders who would do a huge job on the E3 map AIs, we could actually have a more sophisticated AI, that had more alternatives with the extra provs, and could outsmart a human. So in theory you might be able to actually improve the AI with extra provs, but in practice won't happen, unless some 10 fanatical AI modders show up! :rofl:

2-3 might be enough for AOD.

I tried the mod before and after your fix. Now don't get me wrong, the map is great and 99% finished, only some fine tuning left. Like the last time I checked, there were 100% infra provs all over China (since those new provs were sea provs b4, I guess). Also those provs are plains, and have unsual weatherpatterns, which haven't yet been defined. Also have you can't have already fixed all the rare peace-events? Bitter peace, revolters, all that stuff would take ages.

At first I was also wondering why there are 100% infra provinces. Now I can say that they are a sign which provinces have been added so that you can change their terrain/climate/area slightly more easier. Now that revolt.txt is finished, I'll look again at BP, which I intentionally omitted, once the area/region of Russia/Asia is fixed. And yes, the events and revolters have costed me most of the evenings of the last 4 weeks. Ofc if noone is willing to help it'll take a long time...

Eventually tuning with a lot of mods, AI modding, map modding, I started getting some errors. So I made a new E3 folder, but something went awfully wrong with that one too. But I'll blame my modmixing and rushed reinstallation, so don't worry about that one.

For easy adding and removing of mods I can recommend JSGME, which is easy to use and allows you to have various mods at the same time. It's very helpful for quickly testing minor changes to files, e.g. revolters.

 

[Fürstbischof]

If you want to play AOD with the E3 map you'll need these files:

The download of the E3 map v0.5 made by mumia can be found here.

The adapted 1936 scenario files and events can be found here.

The most recent province.csv can be found here.

I'll upload the finished revolt.txt tomorrow after final testing.

Add all files in this order. For the installation of the files I recommend using JSGME which makes it quite easy to add all modified files. All downloads are JSGME-ready.

EDIT: all links removed, see also post 38

 

[bosman]

You can find here in the forum several colorscales.csv. I'm atm testing three of them, but I haven't decided which of them I like most.

Sure, however I would like to see such a map in original version, not in mods.

Generally i prefer to play the game unmodded because most of people have it even when have mods too (I think that many people have the same preferences) and I really don't like to entertain with various modifications.
OK maybe I am nagging, but what is the game, which has to be modded to be good enough as many players notice it isn't now.
IMO mods are good to allow playing different times (like 1914 mod), alternate history or whatever the modders can imagine, but for WWII scenarios original release should be good enough to minimize amount of players, that need to install a mod to enjoy the game as they wish.

P.S. This is what I would like to see in France and Belgium (still need to be tweaked)

 

[Fürstbischof]

If you want to play AOD with the E3 map you'll have to download these files:

The E3 map v0.5 made by mumia :

E3Map v0.5 (6th April 2010.)
- compressed: 29,3 MB
- unpacked: 73,2 MB

Rapidshare: (6th April 2010.)
http://rapidshare.com/files/372721465/E3Map_v0.5.rar

Megaupload: (6th April 2010.)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HQOV1TDM

Speedyshare: (6th April 2010.)
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21805404/E3Map_v0.5.rar

Sendspace: (6th April 2010.)
http://www.sendspace.pl/file/1b736e3cda1965290e33a3b

Still to do:
- terrain
- areas and regions
- IC and resources
- territorial claims
- some names on the map (font needs to be fixed)

The adapted 1936 scenario files:

AOD-1936scenario-E3v0.5c.rar

The adapted event files:

AOD-events-E3v0.5a.rar

The adapted revolters (plus minor fixes):

E3 map-fix1.rar

Add all files in this order. Drop the unpacked files directly into the db, db/events, map and the scenarios directory or use JSGME. For the installation of the files I recommend using JSGME which makes it quite easy to add all modified files. All downloads are JSGME-ready.

Loading the game for the first time after the installation of the E3 map will take longer than usual. Don't be frustrated if it takes 5-10 minutes. The game needs this time to create a new navaldist.tbl. Afterwards any loading of the game is as quickly as before.

 

[Fürstbischof]

Sure, however I would like to see such a map in original version, not in mods.

The devs won't make a new map by themselves. Therefore they have given full assistance to map makers. Maybe they'll later on call one map 'official' but they won't coerce players to use this new official map by adding it with an update.

Generally i prefer to play the game unmodded because most of people have it even when have mods too (I think that many people have the same preferences) and I really don't like to entertain with various modifications.
OK maybe I am nagging, but what is the game, which has to be modded to be good enough as many players notice it isn't now.

It's worth mentioning that different people have different preferences (see sprites vs. counters or the skif icons). Mods have been developed because of this different preferences.

Most mods have been developed and expanded by their makers during their spare time. Their commitment and effort have made their mods so unique. The level of detail most mods offer wouldn't be possible for a commercial release because it would be an enormous risk for any company to develop such a detailed game unless they could be sure that they'd find enough paying customers. But sadly, Paradox games are very, very special interest. Although I really hope that the devs sold more than 1000 copies of AOD, I wouldn't bet on it.

IMO mods are good to allow playing different times (like 1914 mod), alternate history or whatever the modders can imagine, but for WWII scenarios original release should be good enough to minimize amount of players, that need to install a mod to enjoy the game as they wish.

P.S. This is what I would like to see in France and Belgium (still need to be tweaked)

Maybe you should visit their E3 forum or here at Paradox the E3 Map thread and offer them your proposals. Since the map isn't finished your proposal might be realised.

 

[Bubba91873]

Extra provinces doesn't make the ai stupid. Its the poor or lack of coding inside the ai files and proper switching of ai files.The default paradox files included in aod.

I think the ai files in use now by aod are the 1.2 armegeddon ones without any other modification. I may be wrong. : /

Hundreds of missing airfields,navalbases, rivers, incorrect weather patterns and terrain inside the default inc and province files are also partially to blame for bad ai.

BTW, very nice job so far on this new map. Hope it becomes a new aod standard.

 

[bosman]

It's worth mentioning that different people have different preferences (see sprites vs. counters or the skif icons). Mods have been developed because of this different preferences.
...

I understand this, just wonder what people think in general. With mods I meant those affecting only esence of gameplay, not graphics, sounds, etc.
Of course I'm not going to force my vision of official release. I just think, that there are many mods not because modding AoD is easy, but also because it isn't elaborated enough.

Thank You for those links, will be very helpful. Maybe if I had time there would be no problem and I could do a mod with own map and other stuff ( in fact I'm working on a little mod which changes many things in AoD except map - if I finish it and complete testing everyone can try it ).