Are there any other routes to obtaining claims?

[GabrielLoki]

I'm trying to create Britannia, starting as the Norman Duke of Britanny in the old gods start.... (I'm Catholic btw)

Basically, I want to put my own spin on the norman invasion; I hate William the Conquerer's start. :/ And Pope McDeath is always calling for crusades at that time.

I've been trying to fabricate a claim in Dorset for 30 years, never got anything. (My chancellor has the highest rate possible, and I'm friends with him.)

In the whole of wessex, there are only a handful of title claimants, and none of them are adult males. In addition, this method just puts an anglo-saxon in charge and I really want to put normans in charge.

This also requires me to land the title claimant... And I have no land to spare. (I don't want to just create baronies; fabricating claims is actually the cheaper option there)

So, fabricating claims is a bust. Inviting to court is a total bust...

I seem to be out of options...

 

[sigeena]

How about marriage? It's a longer game though, but it makes you feel abit more satisfied when you pull it off.

 

[GabrielLoki]

Ok, so my first goal is to gain control over certain provinces in Wessex. Currently my son is married to some basque princess(needed the prestige). If I were to take the marriage route, I'd be doing it to get claims; would that work? I'd probably end up with a non aggression pact...

 

[Gans]

Ok, so my first goal is to gain control over certain provinces in Wessex. Currently my son is married to some basque princess(needed the prestige). If I were to take the marriage route, I'd be doing it to get claims; would that work? I'd probably end up with a non aggression pact...

Marry your son to the daughter of the petty king of Wessex. Your kids son will have a weak claim on Wessex after his mother dies and you can probably push it. Even better if the mother has a strong claim, in that case you can push it for her. All depends on the inheritance law. Usually all pretenders are getting strong claim which can be inherited, the rest are getting inheritable weak claim. That's why everyone going elective nowadays is a massive pain because all strong claimants are already landed in their kingdom and it's unlikely they will ever elect a woman or child so weak claims are useless against them. So check the inheritance law. If agnatic-cognatic gavelkind that's great, every child of the pretty king of wessex will have an inheriable (either strong or weak) claim after his death.

 

[GabrielLoki]

I think Wessex starts off with agnatic primogeniture...

 

[Gans]

I think Wessex starts off with agnatic primogeniture...

That's a little bit more problematic. His daughters will still get inheritable claims, but those can't be pushed (claims of women cannot be pushed against pure agnatic). If you marry your son to his daughter, your grandson will have weak claim on Wessex wich can be pushed if the ruler of Wessex is a kid (that can be arranged by killing them off until a kid gets the throne) or in hiding or in a war with another claimant.

 

[GabrielLoki]

Keep in mind, I want wessex to be completely under Norman control, culturally.

 

[Gans]

Keep in mind, I want wessex to be completely under Norman control, culturally.

Once you have the duchy you can make it primary and plot-revoke all stuff from the anglo-saxons anyway so I don't think there is a problem.

 

[GabrielLoki]

That won't incur tyranny?

 

[Ed Mike]

It will.

You can also press a weak claim against a regency (if the king of Wessex gets old enough without dying, there's a chance he will be put under one once he get's the "Incapable" trait).

I'm not 100% sure if it can be done at the Old Gods start, but if your oponent have some nasty trait and is more powerfull than you (i.e. holds more land and have more vassals), send your bishop to Rome and try to get the pope on your good side. If he likes you a lot more than he does the king of Wessex, you can ask the Pope permission to conquer Wessex. That works exactly like William's Conquest: all occupied territory will became yours if you win, and the rest of your enemy's land will be vassalized by you.

As for your vassals being Normand, well, you can always play the long game and take your vassals' heirs as wardens and convert their culture over time.

 

[smellymummy]

You could also look at mercia, jorvik and east anglia for claimants to marry as well.

East Anglia usually gets eaten up though, but both Mercia and Jorvik aren't agnatic I think. At the very least you can have more options than just being fixed on Wessex

 

[GabrielLoki]

Oh no problems with Jorvik. Just gonna holy war them once I can challenge their doomstack and attrition. Mercia, I'll consider the marriage option. East Anglia looks like it'll be swallowed up by the pagans too.

I took the suggestion for requesting an invasion, though I haven't actually clicked the button yet it looks like the pope will say yes when I do.

Also, i went through this in an alternate save to see if this would be any easier if I remained pagan; turns out, not so much, lol.

Edit: Ok, here are the numbers- I've got 5.5k troops, I control 5 provinces in britanny, with 1 norman countess. My son controls cornwall and devon.
The petty King of Wessex has 1.25k troops, and controls most of southern england.

I've gotten permission to invade Wessex from the pope, and am now in the prep phase. I don't want to leave much to chance, since I'm gonna need to occupy all provinces in order to win the war.

Edit (The Sequel!): So, whoever suggested getting the pope to let me invade.... Thank you! It worked... Actually it was barely even a fight... I steamrolled Wessex just using mine and my vassals' levies.

 

[Ed Mike]

Oh no problems with Jorvik. Just gonna holy war them once I can challenge their doomstack and attrition. Mercia, I'll consider the marriage option. East Anglia looks like it'll be swallowed up by the pagans too.

I took the suggestion for requesting an invasion, though I haven't actually clicked the button yet it looks like the pope will say yes when I do.

Also, i went through this in an alternate save to see if this would be any easier if I remained pagan; turns out, not so much, lol.

Edit: Ok, here are the numbers- I've got 5.5k troops, I control 5 provinces in britanny, with 1 norman countess. My son controls cornwall and devon.
The petty King of Wessex has 1.25k troops, and controls most of southern england.

I've gotten permission to invade Wessex from the pope, and am now in the prep phase. I don't want to leave much to chance, since I'm gonna need to occupy all provinces in order to win the war.

Edit (The Sequel!): So, whoever suggested getting the pope to let me invade.... Thank you! It worked... Actually it was barely even a fight... I steamrolled Wessex just using mine and my vassals' levies.

Just don't forget to be careful about where you land, do it far enough for the local troops to avoid a Middle Ages version of Saving Private Ryan's landing scene, since defending forces get a large bonus against landing troops (which, of course, makes a lot of sense) but also close enough to your first siege target as to not loose too many man to attrition.

Good luck!

 

[mrstevehazzard]

As for your chancellor fallins asleep on his job, it could just be bad luck, but keep in mind that if the chancellor is bribed, he will never fabricate a claim and there's no indication that this happened. If it really feels like it's been years and nothing's happened, recall him and re-send him, which will reset the bribe. He could just get bribed again, sure, but eventually you'll hit pay dirt.

 

[Naufragus]

Use the Claiments tab in the province window. That will tell you everyone with a claim and let you know who to marry.

Ideally you want people with strong claims. You can nab a lot of titles thru matrillenial marriages. - bastards are often easy or people who are not in that target court since their current liege might not care.

But YOU will never get a claim thru marriage. Your son or grandson will but not you.

Only Fabricate Claims and the Pope can give one to you

 

[sigeena]

That's incredibly rare, for the Pope to grant you invasion CB. It's a very powerful CB. You take as your personal desmesne whatever counties you siege down. Just siege down the top holding and move on.

 

[Naufragus]

That's incredibly rare, for the Pope to grant you invasion CB. It's a very powerful CB. You take as your personal desmesne whatever counties you siege down. Just siege down the top holding and move on.

That reminded me of Excommunication. If you can get someone excommunicated you have a free CB against them

 

[sigeena]

Yeah but Excom CB is pretty pointless, you can't take land.

 

[Unicornprincess]

just become a pagan

 

[Ed Mike]

That reminded me of Excommunication. If you can get someone excommunicated you have a free CB against them

Yeah but Excom CB is pretty pointless, you can't take land.

Yes, you get the "Excommunicated" CB, but it is for roleplay, prestige and piety only, not for titles. You are fighting an enemy of the church, "cleaning Europe" suposedly for the greater good, not for land.

That's a difference between CK II and the old CK: Deus Vult (because yes, I'm old mwahahahaha), where an excommunicated ruler had all his titles up for grabs.