Are there any changes to 1.13's AE planned?

[Tweakee]

Wiz i belive that currently ae is too high from claiming thrones/restoring unions ect, i enforced a pu over austria and got ae of upto 120 with some hre princes, i had basically all the hre,Spain,France,Hungary,Sweden,Teutons ect all coalition me, i can understand getting a good amount of ae, but when literally everyone coalitions you from claiming the throne and winning 'which is already rare due to pu mechanics' it seems a bit extreme.

If you're referring to v1.13, they already said they're cutting the AE they added in that version by half.

My guess would be that the same PU would result in a max of 80 AE... which frankly seems about right for taking out one of the world powers in one shot.

 

[Mattzey]

If you're referring to v1.13, they already said they're cutting the AE they added in that version by half.

My guess would be that the same PU would result in a max of 80 AE... which frankly seems about right for taking out one of the world powers in one shot.

I said I could understand a good amount of ae, but whats the point of even having the feature if you get 120 ae and everyone in europe who isn't your ally coalitions you.

 

[Apollyonna]

Somehow the OP is under the impression that England doesn't care about those provinces. History suggests otherwise. With royal marriages all over Europe, clearly all those lands where known well enough by all of Europe.

The history goes a bit like this: Normans had a royal marriage (or more) with England in the 11th century. A Norman named Roger I conquered Sicily in the 11th century, kicking out the Arabs.

Clearly Sicily was known to England, who in turn were linked by royal marriages, offspring, etc to the Normans.

AE with England, whilst probably too high in the current beta patch definitely is acceptable.

Besides all of this, most of Western and Central Europe was catholic, they knew the history of Al Andalus and would be rather upset if muslims came back, this time with a vengeance of taking huge tracts of lands/lots of provinces in relatively short time. Of course you should have coalitions forming against you. In a way you can look at it as a sort of a preparation for a crusade. Should this AE vanish ? Maybe slower than with non christian nations. Unless they are religiously tolerant, they want nothing to do with the muslims.

Another viewpoint would be this: what if tomorrow IS/IS runs rampage and manages to siege and take over large parts of lands in Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc. Don't you think that every country in Europe, including USA, maybe Russia and many non European countries will form a coalition to counter the scourge and beat them back ? THAT is AE for you.

Edit: and if you come back every 10 years or so to take over more land/countries, do you really think AE should come down fast ? They will not trust you so why should their willingness to form coalitions against you stop ?

Someone else mentioned countries' fear for being next, that is exactly right.

Don't tell me if ISIS comes to Italy, takes it all in 20 years, you sit in Denmark and think, oh well, in 10 years it will all be fine again. But then 10 years later ISIS comes back to take over Switzerland, 10 years latedr half of Germany, etc... at one point they will be on your doorstep... as of what point will you say 'holy sh*t', I wished I had joined those coalitions all those years ago...?

Edit2: or worse, send your diplomat to see if they want to be your ally

 

[CNY10000]

Extra cost for increasing at each level:

3-9 development: No extra cost
10-19 development: 3% per level between 10 and 19
20-29 development: 30% + 6% per level between 20 and 29
30-39 development: 90% + 9% per level between 30 and 39
40-49 development: 180% + 12% per level between 40 and 49
50-59 development: 300% + 15% per level between 50 and 59
etc

So increasing a province from 59 to 60 costs ~200 points (previously about 109), but increasing from 29 to 30 costs ~95 (previously about 79).

OPMs would still get ridiculously developed.

According to this formula, developing a 15 development province to a 30 development province will cost 1051 mana with only a capital modifier, which means a western OPM can easily double its development by 1570 without falling behind in tech nor in ideas.

By the end of the game, Paris and London would be barely medium sized cities only because they are not held by OPM.
The idea that getting development at the cost of mana without restriction, regardless of how much the mana cost is and how the mana cost scales, favors OPMs WAY TOO MUCH.

 

[LikeNothing]

Extra cost for increasing at each level:

3-9 development: No extra cost
10-19 development: 3% per level between 10 and 19
20-29 development: 30% + 6% per level between 20 and 29
30-39 development: 90% + 9% per level between 30 and 39
40-49 development: 180% + 12% per level between 40 and 49
50-59 development: 300% + 15% per level between 50 and 59
etc

So increasing a province from 59 to 60 costs ~200 points (previously about 109), but increasing from 29 to 30 costs ~95 (previously about 79).

Would you consider making Development also cost Ducats? It is IMO essential,

(1) For keeping OPMs (say Ryukyu) from reaching higher levels of Development than capitals of Majors (say Paris);

(2) To solve the late-game Ducats overflow problem.

 

[Ariphaos]

Yes. Development will have a nonlinear scaling so it's cheaper at low levels but unaffordable at very high levels. Development Efficiency will be nerfed too.

Have you considered making development cost cash and take time instead?

 

[Mattimeo78]

So they added more AE on top of the AE increase from the development system, and it bugged into even more AE? In 1.12 if I have 0 AE with everyone and I take Sienna, half the HRE coalitions me. I assume in 1.13 you just sit on your ass and do nothing because everyone freaks out and attacks any time you got caught so much as fabricating a claim.

 

[D-A-C]

I think AE and massive coalitions forming against you is fine ... when its fair.

As somebody said, you should get a bonus if your on the defensive and take provinces from your aggressor, they started the fight but ou winning it shouldn't make your aggressive.

Also some CB's like gaining national cores should be 0 AE and even returning vassals national cores aswell.

 

[PhroX]

Also some CB's like gaining national cores should be 0 AE and even returning vassals national cores aswell.

Why should those give no AE? If I'm one of your neighbours, I couldn't care less whether you have any legitimate right to some land. By taking it you are becoming more threatening to me and thus it should generate AE.

 

[grommile]

Have you considered making development cost cash and take time instead?

"Spend ducats to wait some time and then get more ducats" is covered by buildings.

 

[Ariphaos]

"Spend ducats to wait some time and then get more ducats" is covered by buildings.

No kidding, I've always felt that cash/trade/production/manpower buildings were rather silly. I mean, what, exactly, do you call a massive building project?

Buildings IMO should not influence the economy (and I'm including manpower in the concept of economy, here - it's certainly an underutilized resource).

 

[Trasymachos2]

Would you consider making Development also cost Ducats? It is IMO essential,

(1) For keeping OPMs (say Ryukyu) from reaching higher levels of Development than capitals of Majors (say Paris);

(2) To solve the late-game Ducats overflow problem.

halve the MP cost and make it static, add a ducat cost starting at 100 and increasing exponentially.

 

[TheLenrir]

If you're referring to v1.13, they already said they're cutting the AE they added in that version by half.

My guess would be that the same PU would result in a max of 80 AE... which frankly seems about right for taking out one of the world powers in one shot.

Apologies for the somewhat amateurish editing, but this just happened when I was playing a goofy game as the polar bears. Was wondering why Switzerland was dunking Burgundy then I saw this. From what I've gathered, Burgundy only took 2 provinces which caused everyone to explode all over it, which is frankly insane. Was taking a look at the AE opinions it got from it's fellow countries and it was getting -109 AE from those close to it while generating -1 to -20 AE from countries as far as the Golden horde! Even Castille gained -42 AE (why does it even care?) let alone it's vassals generating -42 AE as well.

Hopefully the AE generation being cut by half will solve it because it seems like it's going to end up into another 'coalition partyhard' type of game if you're going the 'blob' route.

 

[TingJonKi]

Unless there is also an addition for increasing cost (in ducats or MP) for each button click or giving higher provinces bonuses so important provinces cost less the dominant strategy will just be finding the lowest developed grassland/farmland and spamming the button instead of developing a city like Paris or Constantinople in an empire

while +5 MP each time was too much I do advocate something like a scaling ducut costs so rich countries can develop large cities or a +2 MP one as ducats could lead to a power spiral

 

[ChildeR]

So they added more AE on top of the AE increase from the development system, and it bugged into even more AE? In 1.12 if I have 0 AE with everyone and I take Sienna, half the HRE coalitions me. I assume in 1.13 you just sit on your ass and do nothing because everyone freaks out and attacks any time you got caught so much as fabricating a claim.

Don't assume. I haven't pushed particularly hard in my Florence game, but I have half the development of the Italian region under me or my vassals before 1500. Zero coalitions have formed, highest AEs towards me are -20 from neighboring surpassed-rivals. France and Aragon, who are the nearest majors who aren't my allies have -2 and -3.

I have had to carefully consider what territory I take and what CBs I use. And yes, I've often used some of the warscore on humiliate, reparations etc. But I've been at war most of the time, not sitting on my ass.

 

[Pyramid_Head]

Apologies for the somewhat amateurish editing, but this just happened when I was playing a goofy game as the polar bears. Was wondering why Switzerland was dunking Burgundy then I saw this. From what I've gathered, Burgundy only took 2 provinces which caused everyone to explode all over it, which is frankly insane. Was taking a look at the AE opinions it got from it's fellow countries and it was getting -109 AE from those close to it while generating -1 to -20 AE from countries as far as the Golden horde! Even Castille gained -42 AE (why does it even care?) let alone it's vassals generating -42 AE as well.

Hopefully the AE generation being cut by half will solve it because it seems like it's going to end up into another 'coalition partyhard' type of game if you're going the 'blob' route.

I took 3 provinces(all with justified claim) and got hundreds of AE out of nowhere. STarted fighting vs entire planet, united in coalition vs me after that.
I will not matter if they cut AE gain in half. When you get 200 instead of 400 it'll be the same.