My subs seem to get slaughtered taking down convoys, is it worth it to try and fight british convoys now? My opinion is no, but I've only played a few games, and want to hear the opinions of other experienced players.
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Takes to much precious IC in the first few years, and it takes a lot of time to starve out the British. I would wait until you have IC to spare.
Using submarines to kill enemy fleets is worthwhile. Those fleets could be used against your own convoys, or against any invasions you will be attempting.
But I would not advice building them untill later in the game, at least wait till after you've taken Europe.
Hunting convoys is not worth it though, imho.
It takes IC to build those subs.
They must be moved to harbor for repairs frequentyl, and thus require too much micromanagement.
United Kingdom got a lot of ships avaible for convoys. By the time you can manage to kill them all, you usually have already conducted Sea Lion or taken India. And then those convoys are irrelevant anyways.
But I would not advice building them untill later in the game, at least wait till after you've taken Europe.
Hunting convoys is not worth it though, imho.
It takes IC to build those subs.
They must be moved to harbor for repairs frequentyl, and thus require too much micromanagement.
United Kingdom got a lot of ships avaible for convoys. By the time you can manage to kill them all, you usually have already conducted Sea Lion or taken India. And then those convoys are irrelevant anyways.
After taking France is a good time to start thinking about tackling the British convoys.
i played germany 1936,
first of all you have to develop the technology for the next generation of subs, that will be ready at about 1938
after coquering france, you should have 2 packs of 12,
they are quite cheap,
and really hard to destroy,
i sunk almost all the bristish fleet with no casualties,
another option is to invade yugoslavia and you clear the mediterranean from
the british to help the italians.
when one pack is damaged bring the 12 ships to port, and just leave them there, that they will autorepair, quite fast,
so i neutralized the english and usa, with almost no cost, they continue speending a lot of resources producing new ships and transorts,
another option of usage, is wait for the enemy to disemark a few units,
then move the sumbarines to the area, a pack of 12 will sink everything there,
so when you attack the units in land, they will have nowhere to escape.
but the key is develop the first level of subs, they have good attack and defense values
first of all you have to develop the technology for the next generation of subs, that will be ready at about 1938
after coquering france, you should have 2 packs of 12,
they are quite cheap,
and really hard to destroy,
i sunk almost all the bristish fleet with no casualties,
another option is to invade yugoslavia and you clear the mediterranean from
the british to help the italians.
when one pack is damaged bring the 12 ships to port, and just leave them there, that they will autorepair, quite fast,
so i neutralized the english and usa, with almost no cost, they continue speending a lot of resources producing new ships and transorts,
another option of usage, is wait for the enemy to disemark a few units,
then move the sumbarines to the area, a pack of 12 will sink everything there,
so when you attack the units in land, they will have nowhere to escape.
but the key is develop the first level of subs, they have good attack and defense values
I think it depends upon your strategy. In SP, I am always targeting Sea Lion in early '40. So, subs are not going to factor into my effort .. NAV bombers do though in a big way.
In MP, you have to be MUCH more flexible. Sea Lion can be abrogated by good ENG players if they can control the air just as IRL. In v1.06, ENG has a much tougher time in MP defending, but she still has the IC and MP pre-war to keep up with her fighter development if it is focused. If this is ocurring, then you are going to need subs .... lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of subs. Doenitz will be skill 12 in no time!
In MP, you have to be MUCH more flexible. Sea Lion can be abrogated by good ENG players if they can control the air just as IRL. In v1.06, ENG has a much tougher time in MP defending, but she still has the IC and MP pre-war to keep up with her fighter development if it is focused. If this is ocurring, then you are going to need subs .... lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of subs. Doenitz will be skill 12 in no time!
The problem seems to lie in the convoys, they are DEADLY even when unescorted!!! Heck, even a convoy with only 1 escort can wreck havoc to my battleships and cruisers... :wacko:
This needs to be looked into, make the naval game disappointing.
This needs to be looked into, make the naval game disappointing.
I agree that you should wait till after 1940.
I upgrade existing subs, and build around 12 more VII models.
Then capture Norway/ France and use them as bases.
Then set the msg for convoys to POPUP and pause, that way you can check after each encounter that you have STR greater than 75%. If lower then send them back to port for repairs.
The main reason I use subs is to distract the RN and FF fleets so I can launch OP. Sealion!
I upgrade existing subs, and build around 12 more VII models.
Then capture Norway/ France and use them as bases.
Then set the msg for convoys to POPUP and pause, that way you can check after each encounter that you have STR greater than 75%. If lower then send them back to port for repairs.
The main reason I use subs is to distract the RN and FF fleets so I can launch OP. Sealion!
at least those damaged subs should return to port automaticly.
i mean donitz didn´t answer calles the whole day like this:
" herr admiral, we have only 50% strentgh left, can we get back to port for repair ? "
anstead the commanders of the subs made this decission themselfes.
apart from the point that the attrition is way too high !
wonder if the patches are tested before releasing, if so
this should have been noticed ( also the log. penality )....
i mean donitz didn´t answer calles the whole day like this:
" herr admiral, we have only 50% strentgh left, can we get back to port for repair ? "
anstead the commanders of the subs made this decission themselfes.
apart from the point that the attrition is way too high !
wonder if the patches are tested before releasing, if so
this should have been noticed ( also the log. penality )....
I initially felt it a pain in the ass to have to babysit my subs & other ships but I guess I've gotten used to it.
Stupid newbie question: As Germany I tried to upgrade my type VIIB u-boats up to type IX, when I click the upgrade button, it doesn't give me the option of selecting what I want to upgrade it to, then when it is finished "upgrading", it turns up to be the same VIIB it was before. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug of some sort?
Stupid newbie question: As Germany I tried to upgrade my type VIIB u-boats up to type IX, when I click the upgrade button, it doesn't give me the option of selecting what I want to upgrade it to, then when it is finished "upgrading", it turns up to be the same VIIB it was before. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug of some sort?
You can't upgrade ships to a new class. You can only fit existing models with some of the bonuses researched.
If you want a new class sub, build a brand new one.
If you want a new class sub, build a brand new one.
When the US enters the war, your subs mixed with a squadron of naval bombers can keep the Americans off Italy's shores. You may not need them but Italy does. You can cut down Englands IC usage by half if you rotate a few wolf packs in the Med.
I'm beginning to feel like the weirdo strategy guy today, what with my love of paras (another thread) and my love of subs... (current thread )
anyway, in the past, I used to build up a lot of subs, and cordon off britian. I sank an inexplicable amount of shipping... I have no idea how bad it was for britian, but I think it got to the point that they
were unable to build much of anything.. making invasion simple.
with 1.06, I've found I have to change my tactics a bit, so here goes:
Don't bother researching sub stuff till you start attacking poland. Shoot for anything that gives your subs better attack (get the targeting computer or whatever... gives subs +2) and don't build subs till you have ship construction, and sub VII or sub IX. Subs are actually very cheap to build (5 ic!), and
relatively fast.
So, by the time you've finished off france, you should be able to start building your subs, and upgrading the old ones. My most current subs (IX?) have a sea attack of 12! Once they all came online, I sent them to hunt for shipping. 21 sub packs. In the first day at sea, they managed to sink between 200 and 300 transport ships. (at 4ic per transport unit (which translates to 10 per unit when you send them on convoy duty) that'd be about 100ic of shipping I sunk in 1 day!) A couple of days later, they beat the hell out of the british fleet sent to clear the sea zone. Now, all the sub units were hit pretty hard, and I had to port them all, but I still had 12 subs (6 upgraded UII, and 6 UIX) that hadn't participated in the battle. They sink about 50 a day or so... ( or 20 ic)
Normally I wouldn't have left the subs there to fight it out, but I've never gone so far into building subs before, so I figgered hell... why not. It worked well. But it's the last time I think I'll do that, as that's not the reason I spent the ic on them...
Anyway, now I've got 4 nav bombers in western france, so I'll use the subs to kill transports, and run from any combat fleets, and I'll use the bombers to hit any combat fleets that the subs spot.
Not only that, but I need to be able to freely move my invasion fleet for britian when the time comes, ( eastern side ) so I'm hoping that the massive losses of transports will pull all his naval units to the east, freeing the sea lanes for my surface/invasion fleet to the east.
Can't say if it's worthwhile or not... but so far so good... If I can't take britian, then I'll surely starve it! Once her convoy buffer is gone, it'll cost it buttloads to keep up... something I dont' think it can do with any success.
game info: (vanilla 1.06 Ger most difficult settings both ai and game)
)anyway, in the past, I used to build up a lot of subs, and cordon off britian. I sank an inexplicable amount of shipping... I have no idea how bad it was for britian, but I think it got to the point that they
were unable to build much of anything.. making invasion simple.
with 1.06, I've found I have to change my tactics a bit, so here goes:
Don't bother researching sub stuff till you start attacking poland. Shoot for anything that gives your subs better attack (get the targeting computer or whatever... gives subs +2) and don't build subs till you have ship construction, and sub VII or sub IX. Subs are actually very cheap to build (5 ic!), and
relatively fast.
So, by the time you've finished off france, you should be able to start building your subs, and upgrading the old ones. My most current subs (IX?) have a sea attack of 12! Once they all came online, I sent them to hunt for shipping. 21 sub packs. In the first day at sea, they managed to sink between 200 and 300 transport ships. (at 4ic per transport unit (which translates to 10 per unit when you send them on convoy duty) that'd be about 100ic of shipping I sunk in 1 day!) A couple of days later, they beat the hell out of the british fleet sent to clear the sea zone. Now, all the sub units were hit pretty hard, and I had to port them all, but I still had 12 subs (6 upgraded UII, and 6 UIX) that hadn't participated in the battle. They sink about 50 a day or so... ( or 20 ic)
Normally I wouldn't have left the subs there to fight it out, but I've never gone so far into building subs before, so I figgered hell... why not. It worked well. But it's the last time I think I'll do that, as that's not the reason I spent the ic on them...
Anyway, now I've got 4 nav bombers in western france, so I'll use the subs to kill transports, and run from any combat fleets, and I'll use the bombers to hit any combat fleets that the subs spot.
Not only that, but I need to be able to freely move my invasion fleet for britian when the time comes, ( eastern side ) so I'm hoping that the massive losses of transports will pull all his naval units to the east, freeing the sea lanes for my surface/invasion fleet to the east.
Can't say if it's worthwhile or not... but so far so good... If I can't take britian, then I'll surely starve it! Once her convoy buffer is gone, it'll cost it buttloads to keep up... something I dont' think it can do with any success.
game info: (vanilla 1.06 Ger most difficult settings both ai and game)
gorilla,
you may find that is is farily straightforward to invade britain even without a massive blockade first.. they stretch their army out too thinly
(normally in bulgaria)
Heretic
you may find that is is farily straightforward to invade britain even without a massive blockade first.. they stretch their army out too thinly
(normally in bulgaria)
Heretic
I myself uses the secret teleportation device, ooh boy the look on the British generals faces!
Nav Bombers are more worth it, sink the enemy fleet and jump up in those transports.
But I usually do not take the British home islands before I have conquered SU, and by then GB is crawling with Americans...
Nav Bombers are more worth it, sink the enemy fleet and jump up in those transports.
But I usually do not take the British home islands before I have conquered SU, and by then GB is crawling with Americans...