Are subs useless ?

[flecha224]

I ve oriented my navy to a pure sub naval force, but im always been beaten by other ships, event im beaten with my comander being asea wolf with 15 subs fightying 2 DD

And 30 subs are no match for the royal navy with 4 capital ships and dd escolting them... so I thought what the fuck !? I should had beetter trying another type of naval forces...

 

[theokrat]

In HOI2? Seriously?

 

[flecha224]

I was playing hoi2 with armageddon/doomsday installed, from 1936 until 1964, and my subs seems to be useless gains UK, I researched all the naval doctrines which improve subs until the last one dont remeber the name...

But dont know if maybe im doing something wrong ? maybe subs are just for combining with other ships or just for destroying comboys...

 

[unmerged(17791)]

In my (highly limited HoI2) experience... they seem to be anything but useless - especially when it comes to dying heroically and suffering horrific casualty ratios. -As was historically the case.

They do sink a reasonable number of convoys... then get killed. Lucky if they can make it back to base without getting wiped out. Maybe the game developers meant for subs to function effectively only with good air cover... which historically speaking was NOT the case. But, if you can manage it...

 

[theokrat]

Well in Hoi2 they were absolutely overpowered. A bunch of subs could sink any navy back then. Since this is the Hoi2 forum i assumed you played that.

However since Doomsday they where considerably turned down. Now they do exactly what they did: attack convoys and keep the direct naval warfare to random lucky shots. Here is a link to a recent thread on the Doomsday forum on the matter.

 

[Miihkali]

Anyway, in real life submaries sunked big capital ships also, even without any losses.

 

[theokrat]

Anyway, in real life submaries sunked big capital ships also, even without any losses.

Subs were hardly effective against capital ships. Military ships can go to fast for a sub to position itself decently. They also are escorted to well given their high value. of course there where ocations when they did sink stuff, but mainly they just got lucky and given that more than 1000 subs were built by germany alone their performance against warships is not particulary well with some 175 warships sunk (mainly convoy escorts). In DD you can still get these lucky shots, but its not the best way to go if you wnat to sink the enmy navy. In Hoi2 you could build an invincable 30 sub fleet.

 

[flecha224]

Well thanks teokrat for the information, this is what I wanted to know

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

A little statistics:

1157 u-boats of varying models were commissioned into the Kriegsmarine.

257 warships (plus 99 auxilaries), ranging from nine-ton soviet landing craft to the 33.950-tonne HMS Nelson, were hit (damaged or sunk) by german submarines.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

Anyway, in real life submaries sunked big capital ships also, even without any losses.

Yes, but this was usually not planned, most subs stumbled across a slow travelling capital ship and got lucky.

In HOI, it should not be possible to build a U-boat, then sink hundreds of capital ships in one battle, its about luck, which HOI does give you sometimes.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

A little statistics:

1157 u-boats of varying models were commissioned into the Kriegsmarine.

257 warships (plus 99 auxilaries), ranging from nine-ton soviet landing craft to the 33.950-tonne HMS Nelson, were hit (damaged or sunk) by german submarines.

The Nelson wasn't sunk by a Submarine

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

The Nelson wasn't sunk by a Submarine

Sunk or damaged.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

Sunk or damaged.

Oh, ok, but even then, it was only damaged by a mine, and the U-boat attack was unsuccessful, none of the torps exploded.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

A mine laid by a submarine. The submarines in HOI2 represent both torpedoes and submarine minelayers, I suppose.

 

[UberFelix]

I ve oriented my navy to a pure sub naval force, but im always been beaten by other ships, event im beaten with my comander being asea wolf with 15 subs fightying 2 DD

And 30 subs are no match for the royal navy with 4 capital ships and dd escolting them... so I thought what the fuck !? I should had beetter trying another type of naval forces...

Subs in HOI2 kick ass..... Especially 15 subs against two DD.
You do choose NIGHT ONLY for their missions...yes? If you look at the naval tactics research, subs get a nice night bonus....

 

[theokrat]

A little statistics:

1157 u-boats of varying models were commissioned into the Kriegsmarine.

257 warships (plus 99 auxilaries), ranging from nine-ton soviet landing craft to the 33.950-tonne HMS Nelson, were hit (damaged or sunk) by german submarines.

From the Wikipedia list of submarine sunk ships there are

the light crusiers:
HMS Pelenope
HMS Naiad
HMS Galatea
HMS Hermione (*)
HMS Dunedin (**)

the escort/light carriers:
USS Block Island
HMS Avenger (***)
HMS Audacity (***)

the carriers:
HMS Eagle(**)
HMS Courageous (*) (**)
HMS Ark Royal (**)

the battleships:
HMS Royal Oak (**)
HMS Barham (**)

(*)while on convoy duty or ASW operations
(**) build during WW1
(***) transformed merchant vessel

and this was done by 1157 submarines, which woudl roughly correspond to 200-300 submarine fleets in our game! I do think if you build that many in DD you can send a similar amount of ww1 leftovers of the brits to the ground. And for the sake of the argument, yes you could propably damage many more.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

I am not arguing for any side here, just presenting some facts. I agree that DD took the right path and separated convoy attack and sea attack, but in my regular HOI2 games, I have never been really sucessful with subs either.

 

[flecha224]

Well well ok ok guys then everything its clear subs are overpowered in HOI2 vainilla, and are reallistic in doomsday/armageddon, thats the point.

So im gonna start another game and focus my navy about capital ships suppoterd by naval bombers fighting around my coasts

I wanna thx everybody for his points and information

 

[jose1357]

Originally Posted by Zuckergußgebäck
A little statistics:

1157 u-boats of varying models were commissioned into the Kriegsmarine.

257 warships (plus 99 auxilaries), ranging from nine-ton soviet landing craft to the 33.950-tonne HMS Nelson, were hit (damaged or sunk) by german submarines.

I agree when I play as GER when i build my uber uboat stacks of death w/ 30 subs under doenitz, I expect them to sink tonnes of convoys before they get sunk...just like IRL they sunk nearly 3000 merchant ships (c. 14 million tonnes) but were only rarely successful against ships. Same with when I have to oppose them they can sink my convoys but I just build massive serial runs of them so i can focus on their surface fleet which can always pose a threat to my transports etc. Against US this is a mixed bag because they don't really use their convoys for heavy trading (not like UK), instead it's mainly supply so it'll only be helpful when u get them to stack islands/prov.'s so you can easily target them. Otherwise you might as well spend that ic and research on an army or af

 

[Gul Brown]

Im a massive advocate of subs in Hoi2, they are fantastic. I suggest rushing '44 level subs from the start and deploy them in fleets of 6. They will maul anything they run into giving you naval superiority.