Are STRAT Bombers Worthless?

[blue emu]

With the success of Doenitz's "300-U-Boat" plan in my "Are Submarines Worthless?" thread, I've been considering the idea of starting a new game and taking Noobermenschen up on his suggestion of trying to use STRAT Bombers to blast the Germans back into the Stone Age.

Since the Russians would be the main beneficiaries of any such intensive Bombing campaign, I would probably play as the USSR.

Is there any general interest in this idea?

Should it be done as an AAR or as another general-interest thread?

What should my target force-strength be? 48 Squadrons of Bombers with Escorts?

What should my goals be? To reduce the Germans to one Tech Slot (ie: below 20 ICs) and keep them there?

 

[unmerged(56265)]

I'd be greatly interested in this. Ideally, you should do it in the general-interest forum, like your U-Boat thread was. Unfortunately, I can't offer any advice for target strength or strategy.

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

I'm interested, too. But I'd like to see how either UK or US SAC is devastating since they were the ones who used it in war. But regardless of the country you decide, please write the thread to the DD-forum, not in AAR section.

 

[FelisSilvestris]

UK would be fun to see - US just enters the war so late. Of course, I would follow a SOV campaign with great interest as well.
While the DD-forum is a good place, I don't mind some AAR-inlays, here and there~

 

[unmerged(47783)]

I am interested in this plan, and agree that it should be written in the same style as your U-boat thread.

 

[tripp_trap]

I fully support this! Will follow this closely

 

[unmerged(17767)]

I like the idea but I think the UK would be the most logical country to play as they have bases that can reach Germany. The SU, at least early in the game, just isn't really suited to the use of strategic bombing.

 

[unmerged(326)]

I'm very interested as well! Ideally as the UK or maybe USA, to keep it "historical".

Do you take requests in this series? If so I request "Are militias worthless?" as USSR maybe.

 

[Konrad der Rote]

I like the idea but I think the UK would be the most logical country to play as they have bases that can reach Germany. The SU, at least early in the game, just isn't really suited to the use of strategic bombing.

How about Norway? Even somewhat realistic if Russia wins the Winterwar.

 

[unmerged(17767)]

How about Norway? Even somewhat realistic if Russia wins the Winterwar.

Will Norway ally with the SU? I've never seen that happen.

 

[blue emu]

... I think the UK would be the most logical country to play as they have bases that can reach Germany. The SU, at least early in the game, just isn't really suited to the use of strategic bombing.

I'm rather more concerned with the ability to build a sufficiently large Bomber force than with the ability to base them. I strongly suspect that... just as with U-Boats... if I don't have enough of these units to swamp the defenses, all I will get is lots of casualties and few results.

As the USSR, I could always take Finland and Norway to gain bases from which to hammer the German industries in the Brandenburg and Westfalen areas. Hannover is a particularly vulnerable target, containing roughly a quarter of the German Rares. The Crimea already gives me bases within range of the Romanian Oil-fields.

I'm willing to let people vote on it, though... I'll try it with England if that's the most popular choice. I feel that it would be much more easily done with the USSR, though.

... I request "Are militias worthless?" as USSR maybe.

That's already been done as an AAR, hasn't it? Cavalry, too.

 

[stabsoffizier]

Since the Russians would be the main beneficiaries of any such intensive Bombing campaign, I would probably play as the USSR.

I second that although could be interesting to play the UK and just give the Russians the chance to do the hard work. It wouldn't be the real and actual gameplay variant others could use but as an experiment you could isolate your neat little island and see what effect this has on the AI itself. Hope you got the point

Is there any general interest in this idea?

There is interest beyond the very borders of interest. Short: Yes!

Should it be done as an AAR or as another general-interest thread?

I'd make it a general-interest thing. It would have the appearance of a guide which it definitely should be (just like Kanitatlans IC-whoring and your 300-subs experiments).
IMHO, a couple of screenshots would be nice, not too much just on some important breaking points.

What should my target force-strength be? 48 Squadrons of Bombers with Escorts?

48 Squads!?
Well, I, personally, love to use Strats and from my experience up to 12 are enough to seriously harm the enemies industry so that you get large benefits from it. Those benefits do mostly come not only from the reduced IC capacity but from the therefore resulting loss of TC. On the other hand I never tried to do an experiment like this.
Are you gonna battle the Germans regularly on the ground or will you try to put up a massive defense line and see to which point you can harm them so you'll be able to push over with virtually no resistance. In the sedcond case go for as much as you can get (so 48 squadrons are a godd number to target).

What should my goals be? To reduce the Germans to one Tech Slot (ie: below 20 ICs) and keep them there?

Depends. If you chose a variant like playing a 'third nation' like in my UK example above time would be interesting. I mean the time it takes you to build up, reduce their IC to a constant level, the time germans need to finish of france etc.
If you are going the CCCP road I'd favor to see when the point comes where Germany is simply 'breaking' due to their lack of TC / supplies (like explained above).
Another (and maybe the best) observation would be to just document the general effect.


May I propose something totally different. When you are finished with this one would you allow me to pour it (and the 300-subs guide) into a fitting and neat presentation in PDF format so we could distribute it to a wider 'audience'?

 

[tretii_sleva]

Well, all I want to see is what CAN strats bombers do, apart from reducing some ICs which are coming back the next day or two.
They sound pretty useless for me already. But hei, have a go and let's see what happens.

 

[blue emu]

I second that although could be interesting to play the UK and just give the Russians the chance to do the hard work...

So far five different people have mentioned doing it as the UK instead... so perhaps I should make my plans on that basis.

I would not be IC-whoring, since the low British ICs would pretty well force me to build STRATs right from January 1936 in order to have an effective force ready by late 1939.

My target force with the UK would be about 20 to 24 STRATs plus Escorts... with enough Fighters and Interceptors to win Air Superiority in the West and over the Ruhr.

The Russians would no doubt win the game... assuming that the bombing campaign is successful.

May I propose something totally different. When you are finished with this one would you allow me to pour it (and the 300-subs guide) into a fitting and neat presentation in PDF format so we could distribute it to a wider 'audience'?

Sure, that sounds cool... you might have to heavily edit the threads, though... to exclude comments and questions that were just repetitions of earlier, similar remarks.

 

[unmerged(47783)]

The UK is the best choice, because it has no land border with any other nation. Since this entire experiment is to document and test the effectiveness of a Strategic bombing campaign, then it would be best to have no other worries, such as a German invasion (cause we all know there wouldn't be a Sealion). This would allow you to focus solely on the bombing, the issue at hand.

 

[stabsoffizier]

Sure, that sounds cool... you might have to heavily edit the threads, though... to exclude comments and questions that were just repetitions of earlier, similar remarks.

Nice, I'll wait for this one to be finished so that I can do it all at once and pack it into an evil huge mega - information document! Muahaha...ha...mua... *cough*

 

[unmerged(54015)]

Hope this one will be as exiting as the sub thread. Been experimenting with it after your post had satisfiyng results. cheers

 

[stabsoffizier]

Hope this one will be as exiting as the sub thread. Been experimenting with it after your post had satisfiyng results. cheers

The initial post came just came one hour before yours, how'd you manage that!?

 

[Oberschütze Tex]

The UK and the US can easily suffocate the Axis by basing in Norway.
The Germans the same for the UK.

I think the real challenge would be to starve the Russians out as the US or Germany. This one I have never had the patience to complete, but I suspect it is easier then it appears to be ( with nations that build 300+ units ). The more units that need supplies, the greater the effect of strategic bombing.

 

[blue emu]

The UK is the best choice, because it has no land border with any other nation.

Well... if I just roll over in North Africa, the Middle East, India and the Far East, then I'll have no land border with hostile nations.

More interesting (and more in line with the historical British global interests) would be an attempt to juggle my priorities, and crush Nazi Germany from the air without suffering any big disaster in other theaters.

Spy priorities would be interesting... one idea is to wait for the "Marco Polo Bridge" event, then start using "Global Manipulation" to boost Japan's Belligerence and bring the USA in early. It would also be neccessary for me to roll over on France (allow it to fall on schedule) in order to trigger Vichy and the Japanese occupation of Indochina, which will help to bring the USA on-side.