Population needs to be buffed and helped out. :/ It seems they tried to keep small empires alive by making population not matter as much. It's frustrating. I hope it's fixed and addressed.
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Are planets and population actually useful ?
- Thread starter Akka le Vil
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This is exactly what I think are wrong... my Empire have NO KNOWLEDGE of any end game crisis, they can't in a million years prepare for it. That is purely player knowledge and completely gamey in my opinion.
If you simply role-play through a game you will find it ALLOT more challenging on all levels, especially against late game crises.
The game is NOT about winning in my opinion, it is about playing and directing an empire.
In my opinion it is all about the journey and not the destination.
I would never feel good about myself abusing every little trick in the game and AI logic to WIN a single player game like Stellaris, what is the point, why would I feel satisfied with that?
But this is just one mans opinion... my view are certainly not universal.
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Why do they need to be buffed?
Population give you a vast advantage in industrial production and fleet capacity, this is hugely important to militant factions and less so to peaceful federation building species.
I really like to see some really good reason why population need a buff. I would say they need to be more of a nuisance, I think they are a bit timid currently... most likely because of bugs and some features that were cut in the last minute.
If you have the proper ethos, governments and technologies you can very well make your population both happy and productive.
If you mismanage them it is entirely your fault not a problem with game mechanics (unless it is a bug).
I've got the population size of 90. Which is tiny and like 10 planets. I've got the fleet power of 40k+15k with vassals in 2305. It's entirely not needed. I see population as a negative. I want less of it and just more land which is easily dooable by purging nations around you. I haven't seen a point in it yet. It's far too negative on tech for me to every really want a lot of it. I can build a very large economy and max out fleet capacity easily. Regardless if I have a large population.
Anyone who thinks they and perform well without population is welcome to post a game. I think most of the people in this thread saying that population is weak have not tried it and are hugely overestimating the value of slightly faster tech.
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Early game this is an excellent strategy if used properly. by completing mandates you gain an influence boost which can lead to more outposts and more outposts make it possible to finish more mandates. this runs into issues though if war does come and they get destroyed GG. so what I have found is best is to use them to fill out the empires safe zones while colonizing on the frontiers in limited number just to be able to protect the territory. then later on since you will have a strong amount of territory and your tech is strong but you need to be able to maintain a strong fleet. this is when I typically go colonizing crazy. Id say a point when in 10-15 years your going to take down a fallen empire and need the economy to sustain it.
I have played with the frontier post only style into the war with a fallen empire. I ended up having a -200 energy per day and only survived due to trade deals and influence boosts
Yet I did still win the war .....
I have played with the frontier post only style into the war with a fallen empire. I ended up having a -200 energy per day and only survived due to trade deals and influence boosts
Yet I did still win the war .....
So... what is your problem?!?
You have the population and you need to deal with them. If you feel that purging is something your empire would do then do that.
Put most of your pops in labs?!?
I might agree that giving an influence maintenance cost to Outposts are a bit strange, I think a flat Influence cost for building them would be enough... say 300 so a small empire could grab land that way and not just colonize planets for land. But that is a different matter. I also think that we should be able to claim enemy outposts as war-goals as well and not have to destroy them.
The game are suppose to simulate the difficulties to keep a large planetary empire going, the bigger it is the more difficult it is suppose to be. That is why influence are the same for everyone, small or large.
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It's not a edge. It's a deathstroke. Maybe I don't know how to run a large empire. But I'll tell you this much I can by around 2080 swallow the whole galaxy if I wanted with a small empire. So...I don't need late game. I already won. And it's 2080. It's just waiting at this point for a Fallen Empire to appear to go fight or the scripted invasions.
I have no idea how you're getting so much science and the energy to support such a large fleet. My science-obsessed species has gone on a bit of a colonization bender, so the labs aren't all built up yet on the new planets, but even if every planet was as built up as my homeworld (which has a unique +5 to all techs on it) I'd only be getting +2 physics, +1 society, and +1 engineering per Pop, yet in another thread you claim to be getting at least +2 for each science type per Pop. I spend more than a third of my budget on building maintenance, and another third on station maintenance, and by the time everything else is taken out I could only support pay to maintain 8,200 military power in destroyers while they're in port at a station with crew quarters.
I just have no idea how you're doing it.
If you simply role-play through a game you will find it ALLOT more challenging on all levels, especially against late game crises.
Define "role-play".
I mean, as I see it, role-playing a society of sapient beings with the ability to travel interstellar distances within a small fraction of a natural lifespan would naturally involve colonizing every suitable world as soon as reasonably practical, to maximize the chance that your species will not be wiped out by a natural disaster.
I just feel that being a large Empire should a be option. I don't think it is at all for me. There's no choice. I'm just superior in everything compared to if I expanded and creating one.
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That 2% is for EVERY single last pop. Not just for that one running the science center. You have to take the other pops producing energy and working fields into consideration. And it does not pay itself off, as it's added to EVERY technology you're going to research from then on out.
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You're doing the math wrong. Yes, for a 1000 base cost tech you need an additional 20 research produced per pop to stay even. However, you don't need that 20 research PER TURN, you just need to be able to earn it over the same or shorter period as you would have researched the tech without the additional pop. So if you can crank out a 1000 base cost tech in 20 months currently, then for each pop you add you need to be able to make up the extra 20 cost over 20 months or 1 point per month per pop. This is much less unreasonable.
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Fallen empires don't "appear". You have to go find them. (If they're even present; some maps have none, and some maps have several.)
That only holds true once you settled on a few planets, but sure that is one aspect of it in my opinion. But we are still rational for the most part so we can look past the biological need to procreate if we think something else is better in the long run.
It is all part of your role-play and the species you are playing, they obviously have very different opinions of what the best actions for best survival is.
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Not really. Because not every pop is working tech. In fact a lot of pops are going to work completely different things. Ranging from food, to energy to crystals. Yes it's not quite as extreme as it appears, it's still quite an increase with a rapidly growing population. Especially since you're forced to rely on sectors and they are extremly inefficient all around and thus will produce far fewer resources.
Most min/max mizers currently appear to be doing exactly what is being discussed in this thread. Keep down the population a minimum to rush techn. You don't need a massive fleet, singular robot pops allow claiming planets to get access to stations and systems and set the stage for rapid infrastructure developement. Many of which can already be done before filling the planet up.
Pops aren't what's increasing your fleet size, pops aren't needed for crystals as orbital stations deliver quite a few, pops aren't needed for much of anything. The one thing they are needed for is energy but a few on a dedicated planet can usually solve that.
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It is entirely up to you what goals your empire have.
If you want an advice... do not think what YOU want... think about what your EMPIRE wants!!
Now... set up a goal and go for it.
My empire wants to expand. If it doesn't want to expand, it's something other than an empire (even if it is an Emperordom).
Humm....
Example
An Empire with 10 Pop give you 20 research in each category.
Now, you raise that number to 60 pop. That is +100% increase in tech cost so these 60 pop need to produce 40 research to break even from the 10.
This is how it works, i hope this was clear enough.
If you look at the math population will only become a real problem around 300, after this then it will be really hard to keep up with research because of your vast number of pops.
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