Are ottomans even stronger?

[Maykievic]

Hi! I have noticed through my experiences and some timelapses seen in youtube that ottomans right now are really over the top , i mean i know they are meant to be powerful and historically they were , and up till now i thought them quite balanced.
Right now it feels like they are absolutely unbeatable and if you do not actively try to hinder them they take much more land than before. Might it be the great power system? Their new government?
Or is it just my experience?

 

[Maykievic]

This is from a youtube timelapse. I have never seen something like this in my 1000 hours of playing

 

[Atlantians]

Isn't this a good thing? The Ottomans had remarkable potential.

 

[ammadim]

They definitely feel stronger to me,based on my two playthroughs.Not so much based on borders like in the timelapse there,but just in sheer numbers (e.g money and men).I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though.Feels fairly fitting it takes a proper coalition of western powers to stop the Ottos.

As for why they're stronger,I feel like it's more than one thing really,but main ones probably being the new government system meaning they never lose the janissary combat bonuses (decadence doesn't proc as long as their ruler has 5 or 6 in at least one stat,iirc?),and the new tech system being more punishing to the muslims surrounding the ottos.As well as of course just the AI in general being smarter,allowing the bigger countries to utilize their strenght more.

 

[Amatiel]

Playing Byzantium is now harder than ever. Ottos are absolutely 2-3 times stronger.

They often tech up fastest and the battle AI is absolutely ruthless.

 

[Ironside121]

Between their new government type(also means less likely to lose Jannisaries) their development boost and their tech being generally cheaper, they're damn powerful and I love it. It actually makes them feel like a looming threat to Europe as they actually were. Remember that not every nation was equal at this time so they shouldn't be "balanced" as such.

 

[Dracolithfiend]

Gotta have easy mode for players that are scared of a challenge.

They will make an argument with the word "historically" but forget that the moment you unpause the game becomes ahistorical. If they want to look at a map that is the ottomans at their height they can launch their game in 1600 and masterbate to their hearts content. If EU4 was suppose to be 100% accurate after you unpause it wouldn't be grand strategy. It would be a movie. Now watch as I get 100 disagrees from all the ottoboos.

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

The AI can't handle the troop spam of the Ottomans. They're like Zergs, when they declare war and flood enemy countries with nearly 300k men around 1600 - 1650. And then, there are also the unholy alliances of France + Ottomans or Russia/Muscovy + Ottomans. And if they don't have the alliance, one of this countries will try to intervene per "enforce peace".

It was horrible to see Austria-Hungary losing the war against the Ottomans, even, with nearly 1.5 morale more, better mil tech and better generals, because they couldn't hold the line against the rush.

 

[Vulkandrache]

The AI can't handle the troop spam of the Ottomans.

That not a bad explanation. The Ottomans get half of the Quality group from the Jannisaries and every game since 1.18 they went Quantity as their second group.
Additionaly they get most Institutions real fast, especially if they are lucky.
And with the apparent recent changes to the AI almost every war in which several small AI fight one large, the small ones just fail spectacularily at any sort of coordination. Even more so then in the past.

 

[Dark Kain]

In my opinion they should wane more in power during the second half of the game.
Possibly they should be exceptionally bad at adopting the printing press institution, there should be some blocking requisites that an human intelligence can handle, but the AI rarely meet.

 

[Maykievic]

yeah the problem is that having coalitions against them like in history is tough since they also have allies, i'm up for a challenge and i made so many runs just to destroy them i lost count. But seeing how they eat everything and have almost double the forces of every other nation is a bit meh. Sometimes i just want to rp without having to think about their imminent threat

 

[Maykievic]

In my opinion they should wane more in power during the second half of the game.
Possibly they should be exceptionally bad at adopting the printing press institution, there should be some blocking requisites that an human intelligence can handle, but the AI rarely meet.

since they now also have better rulers than ever they stay up with technologies and never fall behind

 

[LS22]

In my current Portugal run, the year is 1670, and the Ottomans haven't even conquered Albania. The Arabia Peninsula is Hejaz's. Persia is a beast. And Hungary has been partitioned by Poland, Ottomans, and... Venice! So, no. I don't think the Ottomans are way stronger than before.

 

[Tarroque]

Gotta have easy mode for players that are scared of a challenge.

They will make an argument with the word "historically" but forget that the moment you unpause the game becomes ahistorical. If they want to look at a map that is the ottomans at their height they can launch their game in 1600 and masterbate to their hearts content. If EU4 was suppose to be 100% accurate after you unpause it wouldn't be grand strategy. It would be a movie. Now watch as I get 100 disagrees from all the ottoboos.

Coming from a Byzantinophile, I don't think having Russia at its height be put at the same level of potential as Gotland would make for a sensible game to anyone but those who wanted to buy Counterstrike with maps. If the idea behind this game was to completely ignore history then a chess emulator might have been a more sensible choice.

Back to the main question - It would appear so and obviously they shouldn't be conquering the whole world in every game. Hopefully paradox will be able to balance it better in the coming months.

 

[LS22]

Coming from a Byzantinophile, I don't think having Russia at its height be put at the same level of potential as Gotland would make for a sensible game to anyone but those who wanted to buy Counterstrike with maps. If the idea behind this game was to completely ignore history then a chess emulator might have been a more sensible choice.

Back to the main question - It would appear so and obviously they shouldn't be conquering the whole world in every game. Hopefully paradox will be able to balance it better in the coming months.

Except that that isn't the current situation. According to my current run i could argue that the Ottomans have been nerfed to the ground.

 

[lordelenath]

Funnily enough they're much stronger in player's hands right now, thanks to their above-average rulers. You can pretty much guarantee to get into decadence - which as a lucky nation was already unlikely as AI but happened to the player at some point.

 

[Tarroque]

Except that that isn't the current situation. According to my current run i could argue that the Ottomans have been nerfed to the ground.

Hopefully paradox will be able to balance it better in the coming months.

 

[GoffBall]

Historically the Ottomans were just an exporter of raw materials due to the Venice trade agreement so they didn't have manufactories until much later, they also didn't colonise so should not have that intuition as well. As someone mention, they were resistance to the printing press. Their janissary also got corrupted which weaken their military.

 

[Gratak]

Playing Byzantium is now harder than ever. Ottos are absolutely 2-3 times stronger.

They often tech up fastest and the battle AI is absolutely ruthless.

The Ottomans have always been among the earliest to tech up at the beginning of the game (which is the time you have to defeat them anyway). I haven't tried a byzantium game, but the fact that they will get a -2 strait crossing penalty when you attack them while they siege Konstantinople should be a nice advantage this patch gives you. On the other hand, Poland being weaker then ever might really be a problem...

 

[Jularbo Kizn]

Playing a RoM game right now with the players being Muscovy, Ottomans, Ming, Austria, Venice, Castille and Brunei.

I find the ottomans to be both weaker with possibility to be more powerful. The year is 1597 and the Ming have 1800+ development with 194% tech penalty and Ottomans have 1300+ development with 150% tech penalty.

The new tech system makes it more important than ever to keep ottomans out of Europe, and even though they have 150k army they are 2 techs behind militarily compared to Western Europe. With the tech penalty being applied to every province it cost the ottomans over 4000 ducats to embrace printing press at the present moment which forces the ottomans to slow down wars if they want to lower the army cost so they can get 4000 ducats.

One problem though is small nation inability to spend money. in 1597 you have basically small countries that are like pots at the end of the rainbow having over 2000+ ducats in the bank just waiting for a greedy Russian or Ottoman to eat up. So if the Devs would make small nation spend their damn money or throw it away or at least something then the new Institution tech system will be a very good balance between the huge horde development nations of the east and the more compact but smaller western nations.