Are nomads over powered?

[CyaN]

Sorry, I don't have horselords so I wouldn't know about nomad nonsense. That sounds buggy. It doesn't really make sense that a holding can have separate tech from a county, since holdings per se don't normally have technology. It would be bizarre if that's WAD.

I'm not sure honestly, I could see how it could be WAD; if you camp in a clear stretch of grassland inside Constantinople with your nomadic steppe horde and keep to yourself, you don't inmediately become a cultured Byzantine ruler, because your nomadic way of life prevents you from adapting that quickly to the environment. And it would make sense that your technology levels were mantained when you change capital; the improvement in the capital holding are not lost, so I guess in game terms it always was the exact same place, just located on different points as you moved the capital around.

Or it might be a bug after all.

 

[KingNothing]

I've only played a little bit so far. But the 90% population requirement for the Invasion CB seems to slow down things considerably.

Easy trick to get around this. When you give out land, your population stays the same, but your max population goes down. Its fairly easy to get to 80% of max, the last 10% can be a pain though, so once you get to 80%, give away 10% of your land, and your good to go. You most likely will get this land back in the invasion with interest.

 

[Pro]

Or just use subjegation. Honestly, unless it's somewhere big like Persia it's no problem to just take a place in two or three duchy wars. Saves you having to siege down all the holdings too, so you might save time all in all.

 

[OmegaAleph]

Or just use subjegation. Honestly, unless it's somewhere big like Persia it's no problem to just take a place in two or three duchy wars. Saves you having to siege down all the holdings too, so you might save time all in all.

I feel really bad taking the entire Arabian peninsula in a single subjugation war. I mean, I'm probably going to settle as a feudal somewhere anyway (and probably get eaten by the ex-Abbasids), but surely taking the entire peninsula in a single war is a BIT OP?

 

[grisamentum]

Or just use subjegation. Honestly, unless it's somewhere big like Persia it's no problem to just take a place in two or three duchy wars. Saves you having to siege down all the holdings too, so you might save time all in all.

You only get 1 subjugation per character. I think you mean subordination as it's the duchy-level CB.

 

[Pro]

Yeah, I meant subordination. Sorry, the expansion is a bit new, and those names are a bit similar.

 

[Sahraine]

Overpowered-maybe

Fun? absolutely

 

[Anthedon]

I'm using the Holy War CB now that I have reformed (for creating/picking your own vassals). The only big blob left is the HRE, which will be subjugated by my next Khan. Asides from that, Subordination is fine. Though it's odd that the "nearby rulers of same faith will join" mechanic from Holy Wars applies to it as well. I've only used the actual tribal Invasion only two or three times so far. I'll try shuffling land to get around the 90% requirement, as suggested.

 

[Robert II]

Much like any new hotness yes they're OP that goes double when they're in the players hands, still fun though especially when you've got the silk road locked down and can afford masses of ha and hc

 

[grisamentum]

I'm using the Holy War CB now that I have reformed (for creating/picking your own vassals). The only big blob left is the HRE, which will be subjugated by my next Khan. Asides from that, Subordination is fine. Though it's odd that the "nearby rulers of same faith will join" mechanic from Holy Wars applies to it as well. I've only used the actual tribal Invasion only two or three times so far. I'll try shuffling land to get around the 90% requirement, as suggested.

I don't seem to have my holy war CBs available, either as Buddhist or Jewish.

 

[Lord Roivas]

Perhaps it's just my game but I always seem to have the negative modifier for wanting more grazing lands from each clan, no matter how much I give them.

The hordes are really easy to beat though by a player controlled faction, you pretty much just have to beat their main stack and siege the one holding they have and you won. More than likely they'll have a revolt too.

 

[Fimconte]

I feel really bad taking the entire Arabian peninsula in a single subjugation war. I mean, I'm probably going to settle as a feudal somewhere anyway (and probably get eaten by the ex-Abbasids), but surely taking the entire peninsula in a single war is a BIT OP?

In the hands of a knowledgeable player?
Sure, it's a bit strong perhaps.

But that has always been the case with powerful positions:
Horde-cultures, Caliphates, Charlie-into-Altaic, etc.

These have allowed for ultra fast World Conquests, but if you're playing CK2 for a challenge,
then single-player isn't really the mode you should be looking at.

 

[Pro]

The hordes are really easy to beat though by a player controlled faction, you pretty much just have to beat their main stack and siege the one holding they have and you won. More than likely they'll have a revolt too.

That's my experience some of the time, but other times it's very hard to get warscore against hordes.

 

[Eslin]

Overpowered-maybe

Fun? absolutely

The exact opposite of that. They're way, way too strong, and that is boring as hell. If I wanted to win without trying I'd use console commands.

 

[Fimconte]

That's my experience some of the time, but other times it's very hard to get warscore against hordes.

Strange, I haven't encountered that myself.
You're occupying all their holdings and they're not a tributary, right?

 

[Pro]

I'm occupying their capital, but they still have two tribal vassal provinces that are unnoccupied. I think the non-nomad vassals are what makes them so amazingly resilient.

 

[Fimconte]

I'm occupying their capital, but they still have two tribal vassal provinces that are unnoccupied. I think the non-nomad vassals are what makes them so amazingly resilient.

Only ~16% from battles, maybe they have some troops hiding somewhere.
Or they might not have any troops left, but this is an issue for feudals/tribals as well,
if the other guy doesn't have/raise troops and give you a battle, you can't get more than 99% for 3(?) years on some CBs.

But the feudal vassals thing is what's stopping you from getting 100%.

In my 769 Mongols run, Khazaria had blobbed hard into the Magyars by the time I invaded them.
I got 100% easily, by crushing his troops repeatedly (AI kept hiring more), but laying down the carpet took forever due to feudals, since I wanted to take it all in one go.

 

[LACKADAISICAL]

In the hands of a knowledgeable player?
Sure, it's a bit strong perhaps.

But that has always been the case with powerful positions:
Horde-cultures, Caliphates, Charlie-into-Altaic, etc.

These have allowed for ultra fast World Conquests, but if you're playing CK2 for a challenge,
then single-player isn't really the mode you should be looking at.

This is generally my feeling. As powerful as nomads are, they're not much more powerful than the Byzantines at 867, the Abbasids or Charlemagne in the CM start, the HRE or Seljuks in 1066, etc.

 

[Kubissus_PL]

Point taken, but the argument that nomads are too stable in the hands of the player could be applied to most realms in CK2. The byzantine empire was historically rife with infighting, but in the player's hands it is the most stable realm on the map thanks to viceroys and such. Same goes for France, which was crazy decentralized historically--in the hands of the player, it is generally easy to keep stable and centralized.

Personally I don't find it fun when your realm unavoidably arbitrarily implodes on succession due to things you can't really control. It is one of the reasons I don't think playing as tribals is very fun.

Couldnt agree more

 

[KingNothing]

Ive had the problem with trying to get war score as well. Usually its if I DOW them when they are fighting another war. If they lose a battle to someone else, it can be a real pain to get warscore up.

I do find them fun, even if they are a bit OP. A few things I didn't see mentioned, the buildings seem to be way OP. The AI does seem to be pretty slow at upgrading them though.