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Robert II

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Who's going to burn Arabia to the ground now?

Meh I suppose I can live with 1 out of 2 blobs getting destroyed especially if it's the Greeks
 

raven63

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Also on the topic of camels, are they really worth it compared to the Tengri boosted LC? The only area they are better in is in Morale and Melee attack, all other stats are better for the LC which also generally is in great numbers. I suppose the Desert camel building could make it worth it though?

Oh don't get me started on camels. They are the most unrealistic, stereo typifying, historically inaccurate idea ever.

There had been instances where camels were used as a surprise weapon, or for a horse-scaring tactic, but to suggest that there had been states which employed camel fighting formations consistently and in large numbers is obscure.

Desert nomads used them, but they also used their kitchen sinks (i.e they threw everything they got at ya). Abbasids? very rarely (never?) according to the historical accounts we have.

In my game I mod the arabic cultures to have heavy cavalry, as that is more accurate.
 

divsky

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where they not overpowered in real life? Also they bring challenge and I heard that there are something called forts I suggest you to use them.

You act like OP is complaining about being challenged. He wasn't complaining that they were overpowered when playing against nomads. He was complaining that they were overpowered when he was playing as nomads. If he's going to put down $15 to play as nomads, doesn't he deserve an equally challenging experience when playing as them? Or do you really think that playing as a nomad should be ez mode?
 
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BigPharma

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I was struggling a bit in the early game as a nomad because of a lack of a solid source of income... and then I discovered the Silk Road. I parked my capital on the route leading to/from China, built up to the trade post limit, established a vassal clan along the road, absorbed them before they got too strong, and voila, I currently hold 10 trade posts that net me anywhere between 300-1000 gold a year in trade income alone depending on which routes are blocked. Blocking the route to India can potentially raise the Silk Road bonus to over 200% bonus tax, make level 2 trade posts give 100 gold a year each. It feels like protecting trade in EU4 and I like it, but it's extremely powerful and probably needs a nerf.
 

Robert II

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I was struggling a bit in the early game as a nomad because of a lack of a solid source of income... and then I discovered the Silk Road. I parked my capital on the route leading to/from China, built up to the trade post limit, established a vassal clan along the road, absorbed them before they got too strong, and voila, I currently hold 10 trade posts that net me anywhere between 300-1000 gold a year in trade income alone depending on which routes are blocked. Blocking the route to India can potentially raise the Silk Road bonus to over 200% bonus tax, make level 2 trade posts give 100 gold a year each. It feels like protecting trade in EU4 and I like it, but it's extremely powerful and probably needs a nerf.

Can you build the trade post upgrades because in my capital the trade practises tech is level 3 but I can only build the first upgrade
 

Pigeoncount

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My first run went poorly as I learned the new mechanics, but my second try at them is absurd. I haven't been this absurdly powerful since... the Magyars could conquer the world without breaking a sweat, even as the AI.
 

BigPharma

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Can you build the trade post upgrades because in my capital the trade practises tech is level 3 but I can only build the first upgrade
For some reason, the tech in your capital holding is tied to the actual holding. You have to let time pass for the tech in the capital to spread to the province, which is very, very strange. I upgraded my tech to level 5, only to check the province and see that the tech in the province was only 3.4, so I had to wait a couple decades before I could build the level 3 trade post. Use your steward to spread econ tech to help it along.
 

Robert II

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For some reason, the tech in your capital holding is tied to the actual holding. You have to let time pass for the tech in the capital to spread to the province, which is very, very strange. I upgraded my tech to level 5, only to check the province and see that the tech in the province was only 3.4. Use your steward to spread econ tech to help it along.

Is this wad? Seems a weird choice
 

toroltao

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It's tied to your capital, and not the province, because otherwise if you moved your capital you'd lose your tech stuff.
 
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klopkr

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They do seem pretty strong in the only game I've played. It doesn't feel like there's a way to split them up after they blob even though historically Nomads tended to split very easily.

Also AI and my own calculations on Nomad strength is very blurry because you only see the top rulers personal levy. You need to add up all the levies to get the real number.

On another note adventurers that settle keep their spawned troops and from what I've seen the spawned troops keep growing. It gives them a huuuuge unfair advantage over their neighbors.
 

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From my experience, it shouldn't be hard to roll over a Horde. Defeat the Khaghan, and his fellow clans will pounce on him, causing a large period of internal turmoil. Khans are just not fans of leaders who they think they can take, so if their leader is weak ,you'll see them at least struggle for a while.
 
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From my experience, it shouldn't be hard to roll over a Horde. Defeat the Khaghan, and his fellow clans will pounce on him, causing a large period of internal turmoil. Khans are just not fans of leaders who they think they can take, so if their leader is weak ,you'll see them at least struggle for a while.
Shit, people rebel on me if I win a war but take some casualities during it. "The Khan lost 1,000 of his 5,000 men, quick get him before they replenish in two months!"
 
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CyaN

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It's tied to your capital, and not the province, because otherwise if you moved your capital you'd lose your tech stuff.

Anyone knows what's the exact interaction between the technology in your capital holding and the technology in the province where the capital is located? I'll admit it baffles me so far. I re-located my capital holding to Urgench, which had a very nice 9-10-11 tech (instead of my old 0-0-0...), and it seems that the advancement of technology in my capital holding has somewhat accelerated because of it.
 

aitaituo

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Anyone knows what's the exact interaction between the technology in your capital holding and the technology in the province where the capital is located? I'll admit it baffles me so far. I re-located my capital holding to Urgench, which had a very nice 9-10-11 tech (instead of my old 0-0-0...), and it seems that the advancement of technology in my capital holding has somewhat accelerated because of it.

Assuming nomads haven't changed how tech spread works, tech spreads from higher tech provinces to lower tech provinces proportional to the difference in tech levels and modified in the lower tech provinces by tech spread increasing buildings and councillors. The spread goes to not only adjacent provinces, but also from provinces in a character's demesne. So personally holding Constantinople when the rest of your provinces are in Perm will cause the Permians to quickly advance, whereas handing Constantinople off to a vassal will doom you to a hunter-gatherer existence. Also, the steal technology job of spymaster's makes the target province be considered one of your demesne provinces for tech spread purposes, though it is listed separately in the tooltip IIRC.
 

CyaN

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Assuming nomads haven't changed how tech spread works, tech spreads from higher tech provinces to lower tech provinces proportional to the difference in tech levels and modified in the lower tech provinces by tech spread increasing buildings and councillors. The spread goes to not only adjacent provinces, but also from provinces in a character's demesne. So personally holding Constantinople when the rest of your provinces are in Perm will cause the Permians to quickly advance, whereas handing Constantinople off to a vassal will doom you to a hunter-gatherer existence. Also, the steal technology job of spymaster's makes the target province be considered one of your demesne provinces for tech spread purposes, though it is listed separately in the tooltip IIRC.

Does that mean that holding Urgench (relatively high-level province) personally, while having my capital somewhere in Siberia, would spread technology to my capital holding as fast as relocating it to Urgench? Or does adjacency play an additional role in increasing it too? (I'm not even completely sure that nomad capital holdings are considered as "adjacent" to a province for that purpose, my holding and the province where it is have vastly different technology levels)
 

aitaituo

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Does that mean that holding Urgench (relatively high-level province) personally, while having my capital somewhere in Siberia, would spread technology to my capital holding as fast as relocating it to Urgench? Or does adjacency play an additional role in increasing it too? (I'm not even completely sure that nomad capital holdings are considered as "adjacent" to a province for that purpose, my holding and the province where it is have vastly different technology levels)

Like with the spymaster job, even though they are listed separately in the tooltip, it makes no difference whether a province is adjacent or merely in a character's demesne for tech spread purposes. You don't get a double effect from having a high tech province both adjacent and in your demesne.

However, moving your capital to a higher tech province is always faster than waiting for tech spread, because tech spread is slow and moving is immediate. You'll only notice a difference in the techs that have global effects obviously, like cultural techs, military organization, retinue relevant troop techs, etc.
 

CyaN

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However, moving your capital to a higher tech province is always faster than waiting for tech spread, because tech spread is slow and moving is immediate. You'll only notice a difference in the techs that have global effects obviously, like cultural techs, military organization, retinue relevant troop techs, etc.

Sure, as long as you settle and go feudal; if you don't, the technology levels in your capital holding and in your capital province are separate entities, which is all sorts of confusing. I have Castle Infrastructure 2 in my capital province and 0 in my capital holding inside that province (which is the one that counts for the most part).
 

aitaituo

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Sure, as long as you settle and go feudal; if you don't, the technology levels in your capital holding and in your capital province are separate entities, which is all sorts of confusing. I have Castle Infrastructure 2 in my capital province and 0 in my capital holding inside that province (which is the one that counts for the most part).

Sorry, I don't have horselords so I wouldn't know about nomad nonsense. That sounds buggy. It doesn't really make sense that a holding can have separate tech from a county, since holdings per se don't normally have technology. It would be bizarre if that's WAD.
 

OmegaAleph

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Sorry, I don't have horselords so I wouldn't know about nomad nonsense. That sounds buggy. It doesn't really make sense that a holding can have separate tech from a county, since holdings per se don't normally have technology. It would be bizarre if that's WAD.
It's so you can keep your tech when you move your capital to another province. It'd be annoying if you worked on getting lots of tech, then lost it when you moved your capital closer to the front lines, wouldn't it?
 

aitaituo

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I guess that makes sense. Maybe I'm still thinking too much like a feudal lord. Why don't those pony people just enforce serfdom anyway? It's better than the -10 legitimacy hit.
 
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