Are native/colonial soldiers really much worse?

[unmerged(118154)]

I've noticed that native and colonial troops only have a slightly reduced reliability (I assume this means they'll take more attrition and be more likely to rebel?).

But I've also seen posts which mention native soldiers being slaughtered by regular troops, which has got my all confused.

So I'm wondering - aside from a bit of extra attrition, do native and colonial soldiers have any other downsides? If not, doesn't that mean they're of incredible value, due to a low maintainence cost?

 

[unmerged(116276)]

Forget about the math- they're worthless. I know this from experience. You'd be lucky to have 100k native troops beat 30k regular troops.

 

[Corbett]

Unless it was changed in a big way - to the contrary, native soldiers are great! They cost only one tenth the maintenance of a regular soldier and they're almost as good. If they're losing 10:3 fights, it's probably because of other factors like terrain, technology or leadership; battles in Victoria are over before they've started, so far as I'm concerned. Now I don't know whether I'd send them in for the most important spearheads, but I'd be more than confident using native troops to hold terrain or run defence.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Well, natives with ART is just about the largest exploit ever, massive firepower for low low cost

 

[Corbett]

Well, natives with ART is just about the largest exploit ever, massive firepower for low low cost

In terms of bang:buck ratio, it just can't be beat.

 

[unmerged(118154)]

Is there any way, then, to reduce the effectiveness of native soldiers? (editing the stats)

 

[unmerged(106891)]

No, I believe that it is hardcoded.

 

[unmerged(37275)]

Irregulars are the troops uncivs fight with (generally) and they are very very poor, I assume this is where the confusion comes (native irregulars are unciv troops, very poor. Native regulars are civ troops on the whole and are pretty much the same as their national regular counterparts).

In terms of bang:buck ratio, it just can't be beat.

I guess this is pretty true to real life. Why pay your own country men who expect a proper (or at least competitive) salary when you can hire overseas natives who probably see the low salary as a high one compared to their non solider friends. I think it was both a matter of not using to many national people but also cost effective.

I dont think there is a problem with the natives being as powerful, they would have been trained and officered by homeland countrymen and in some cases they were very effective. The only thing was they tried to stop them being too good (well equiped etc) so they couldnt beat the white european. Also, fighting for your 'masters' was perhaps not really highly motivating, but then being part of the masters army gave you a number of privilages you did not get if you were not part of it. I guess the idea was that you train them as well as your regulars. Shame there couldnt be culture techs that let you decide the relationship between motherland and natives, so you can choose to have full training or keep them down)

 

[unmerged(106891)]

Here is the VickWiki entry if it will make any sense for anyone: http://www.paradoxian.org/vickywiki/index.php/The_Army#Unit_quality

 

[Lord Finnish]

Natives are good to stop rebellions, but I also found use to stack natives in useless colony in a province that borders with country that I am going to attack. I got 25 natives there, and enemy puts 40 regulars. Natives lose, but then the enemy will have less troops fighting in heartland.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

The reduced reliability can be a real pain if you do not have a good ganeral....and good generals should comand your proper troop But a tenth of the cost is still verry verry low

 

[unmerged(37275)]

I suppose the reduced reliability shows how ready these troops were to desert when the going got tough. After all, often the war they are involved in doesnt really have anything to do with them (well apart from swapping one colonial power for another, great!), so why would they want to be there (even if they are trained as well as national troops). They can therefore sap your manpower if the are in enemy provinces without good generals and even more so in tropical climes. Though I think the cost of them still far outweighs this small downside (just convert more natives into soldiers hehe).

 

[Jingles]

I agree, it is a fairly realistic interpretation. Just wish they moved faster.