Are livestock supposed to be so incredibly good?

[westamastaflash]

Compare these.

Livestock slave with Nerve Stapled, Robust, Agrarian, Delicious, and any one of -1 traits.
Results in a base +25% modifier. Add in various other modifiers and you can produce lots of food.
No districts or buildings required. Housing required: 0.225. Amenities: 0.675. +1 crime.

Farmer slave with nerve stapled, robust, very strong, agarian, and repugnant.
On dedicated farming planet with a food processing center (+1 energy/+1 mote upkeep). Housing: 0.675. 0.675 Amenities. +1 crime.

I mean, holy crap. I can generate massive amounts of food, for less housing, a bit more amenities (but really who cares if I dedicate a world to livestock)... and NOT have to use precious resource districts on farms, and save a few minerals by not needing motes for the processing district building?? The only downside is I have to grow the livestock. But have to grow farmer pops too??

Is this as designed? Seems like a huge benefit to xenophobe/authoritarian with virtually no downside, assuming bio ascension. But should bio ascension lead to basically never needing farming districts?

 

[Less2]

It's pretty dang good. Sort of like being able to build a Ringworld before Ringworlds are available (this is more of an commentary on Ringworlds being underpowered though).

I'm pretty sure you can build the +15%/+25% food buildings to improve their deliciousness as well. This all might be an oversight, I believe foodstock was intended to be flat food without any modification.

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

Seems like a huge benefit to xenophobe/authoritarian with virtually no downside

Xenophobes only. And it makes everyone else hate you even more than they already did, with a "xenophages" negative opinion modifier. So as long as you're committed to having no allies, yeah, it's great and you should do it. I would.

 

[morangias]

Don't you get a big opinion malus with other empires for eating people?

 

[exi123]

And now consider you can sell this food in unlimited amounts on the market for energy credits... Why even build energy districts?

 

[Less2]

And now consider you can sell this food in unlimited amounts on the market for energy credits... Why even build energy districts?

The price will crash to at least 3-4:1, which is not favorable.

 

[Avil]

The price will crash to at least 3-4:1, which is not favorable.

When AI derping that hard with food production? It gets restored pretty quickly. You sell 10k, and next time 10k is ready price is already good enough.
I started my mega corporation from food production. 300-600 food per month makes you 900--1800 energy (if you sell in bulk).

 

[Zergor]

I really love the fact that agrarian gives a boost to livestocks. "I am really good at farming so I'll give them a few tips on how to farm myself".
Aside from that I feel it's normal for it to be good granted it requires a very late tech ascension locked and also destroy your relations with neighboors.

 

[westamastaflash]

Does xenophages modifer get worse over time? Because my friends certainly have no problem with my wise spiritualists starting to eat people

 

[westamastaflash]

It's pretty dang good. Sort of like being able to build a Ringworld before Ringworlds are available (this is more of an commentary on Ringworlds being underpowered though).

I'm pretty sure you can build the +15%/+25% food buildings to improve their deliciousness as well. This all might be an oversight, I believe foodstock was intended to be flat food without any modification.

The +% food buildings do not appear to affect it - they work on 'farming' jobs. The example pops from the first post are both on an Agri-World with upgraded food processing center building.

 

[Less2]

When AI derping that hard with food production? It gets restored pretty quickly. You sell 10k, and next time 10k is ready price is already good enough.
I started my mega corporation from food production. 300-600 food per month makes you 900--1800 energy (if you sell in bulk).

Maybe it's a difficulty level thing? On levels where the AI gets bonuses I see the worth of base resources crashing, presumably the AI is selling them and buying alloys/CGs/etc.

Also obviously has to do with the throughput you need. Selling 10 a month barely budges the price, selling 1000 a month crashes it.

The +% food buildings do not appear to affect it - they work on 'farming' jobs. The example pops from the first post are both on an Agri-World with upgraded food processing center building.

Yes, I see the distinction now. Begs the question of why the other food bonuses apply to all food production rather than just farming jobs. Exploit it while you can, it's probably going to be nerfed.

 

[morangias]

I really love the fact that agrarian gives a boost to livestocks. "I am really good at farming so I'll give them a few tips on how to farm myself".
Aside from that I feel it's normal for it to be good granted it requires a very late tech ascension locked and also destroy your relations with neighboors.

Robust also makes me crack up. Considering other boosts from this trait, I guess it represents extra chewiness

 

[roman566]

Does xenophages modifer get worse over time? Because my friends certainly have no problem with my wise spiritualists starting to eat people

View attachment 431217

-50 if they are Xenophile.

The modifier isn't that bad, just throw some food at the problem. My neighbor got a nice positive modifier from the food I gave him. Easily large enough to overcome the penalty.

 

[Vanhal]

You also need bio ascension for that. So, as in almost every other issue here, specialized late game build. Not really OP.

But Jeezus i wish there was something like that for minerals. For me, the motto of 2.2 is "WE REQUIRE MORE MINERALS!"

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

Aside from that I feel it's normal for it to be good granted it requires a very late tech ascension locked

You also need bio ascension for that. So, as in almost every other issue here, specialized late game build.

You know you can also eat pops before you make them docile and delicious, right? And it isn't drastically worse.

 

[Wombats O' War]

You also need bio ascension for that. So, as in almost every other issue here, specialized late game build. Not really OP.

But Jeezus i wish there was something like that for minerals. For me, the motto of 2.2 is "WE REQUIRE MORE MINERALS!"

Matter Decompressors?

 

[pryr]

You max out food with most extreme options and got a lot of food. What a surprise

 

[westamastaflash]

The problem is the comparsion between what a great farmer can do and what a great livestock can do, and the tradeoff between livestock and farmers makes livestock a no-brainer. If you remove the bio ascention traits from both you get a similar spread of food amounts (farmers are a bit better). When a planet can only have so many districts every non-district job counts. Obviously if you use Agararian Idyll that makes farmers much more worthwhile. And yes, you need slavery for this to work.

 

[westamastaflash]

Also, I researched Nutrient Replication and it added another 15% to livestock (and regular farmers).

Note that since both farmers and delicious livestock have a base of 6 food, the repeatable tech increases will never mean that farmers outpace livestock. Without bio ascension, farmers will at some point outpace livestock for housing space per food generated.

 

[westamastaflash]

Dump your livestock all on a Lush or Ecumenopolis World, you get another +20%. Gaia adds 10% as well. Works especially well with Ecumenopolis since it has so much housing you barely even see the livestock. But you do need to reserve a spot for the slave processing facility. And you can have them double as slave soldiers for your slave armies!