Are buildings generally ok? Do they cost too many monarch points?

[gaius valerius]

I build a ton of buildings, imo they matter in the beginning cause they do make a difference when you are a smaller nation. To blob-style players perhaps it doesn't matter but I do notice the significant difference in income by constructing buildings all over the place, manufactories included. The cost in MP is just okay, after all it is a choice you have to make to invest or not.

If the game wasn't only about expanding, they would be fine. As it is, they are borderline useless in most cases.

It's funny how 2 people can play a completely different game

 

[Autoclave]

Since buildings don't require maintenance, it makes the entire decision making process much more simple.

 

[kralex]

Buildings costing Monarch Points is silly, imo. It leads to ridiculous meta-gaming like flooding an enemy you want to conquer or a vassal you want to annex in monetary gifts, to make them build stuff for you without costing you your precious MPs. On the other hand, buildings are far too profitable in monetary terms, at least on your own continent. IMHO, buildings should not cost any MP, but significantly more ducats - maybe even flat twice as many.

 

[Beagá]

I build a ton of buildings, imo they matter in the beginning cause they do make a difference when you are a smaller nation. To blob-style players perhaps it doesn't matter but I do notice the significant difference in income by constructing buildings all over the place, manufactories included. The cost in MP is just okay, after all it is a choice you have to make to invest or not.

It's funny how 2 people can play a completely different game

That´s because ultimatedly there is no "right" way of playing the game. Good reason to praise Paradox, as it means there aren´t overpowered/underpowered stuff

I think that never using buildings is as silly as building them all over the place, the question is how much to build, and it all depends on external and internal situation.

 

[Freudia]

On the other hand, buildings are far too profitable in monetary terms, at least on your own continent. IMHO, buildings should not cost any MP, but significantly more ducats - maybe even flat twice as many.

Honestly, I'd like to see more 'this building gives me some sort of bonus that isn't directly translated into more money' buildings. Too many buildings directly translate to more money when there's already a ridiculous overabundance of money, so that results in a lot of buildings being pretty mediocre.

 

[herrmarisa]

Buildings shouldn't cost any monarch points, but the amount of money per tier should be greatly increased to compensate. At the moment, you can still easily swim in money and there is nothing to spend them on.

Monarch points discourage construction works at all :C

 

[Selvas]

Buildings shouldn't cost any monarch points, but the amount of money per tier should be greatly increased to compensate. At the moment, you can still easily swim in money and there is nothing to spend them on.

Monarch points discourage construction works at all :C

This I belive is good idea.

 

[G_Morgan]

It has always been the case that buildings are only built if you screw up your optimisation. Optimal play will basically have you constantly expanding and teching so that your net points are never high enough to make buildings.

 

[Gaamel]

You don´t need to build everywhere. It´s not like All provinces in Sweden were as developed as Stockholm in real life now, were they?

The top tier building are expensive in gold but "cheap" in monarch points. So ultimatedly what you will want to do is focus buildings and build the top tier ones. "Oh but they are expensive" for that you have Economy ideas, which some people say are crap. Go figure.

I don't know which country you're playing to be in need of economic. All countries need some gold early on but most of them are swimming in gold past 1500 if you play your cards right (and with England or France it's rather 1460 with the 1.8 patch). Of course there are exceptions, like the gold-heavy countries in Africa or South America which really need the inflation decrease.

To come back to the OP : if you want a lot of buildings, quantity is the way to go (-20% MP cost for buildings). Combined to a colonial game the idea group is very strong.

 

[Chimerae]

My rule is basicly: full trade buildings in all provinces with estuary or important center of trade.
Filled up capitol for the hell of it (if capitol has ICOF or estuary special trade, else special admin)
Mil buildings are 100% useless if you expand. If I have too much mil tech points I waiste them on re-rolling generals.

Waiste points on buildings while waiting for overtime tech penalty to go
(otto's get for some reason excelent rulers, temple overview)

 

[spyroware1]

To come back to the OP : if you want a lot of buildings, quantity is the way to go (-20% MP cost for buildings). Combined to a colonial game the idea group is very strong.

I myself loathe this piece of shit of an idea in a military group of all places. Ideas are meant to give your country context, RP value and fun. I wish PDS saw that instead of balancing them out as if theyre MMORPG talent trees. You want to do x then you need y country 'spec', oh that group is weak/never taken, here have this singular bonus that makes little sense instead of brainstorming why a particular group doesnt work in the overall narrative/meta. Why Admin ideas don't have MP point reduction? Why the Admin groups taken are ideas not directly tied to administration/bureaucracy ie innovative/religious/humanist? Get your shit together

/toxic rant

More on topic, build temples, manpower buildings and the minus army maintenance ones in your recruitment provinces. Buildings may seem relatively powerful, but they're comparatively weak. You need tech/cores etc more than money. You should never stop expanding. If you've reached a natural/historical border that you like and don't want to ruin then find another place to expand to, like Egypt/India/Iceland or something. By the time you can afford manufactories more comfortably start building these too as armies/navies/advisors/oxygen become increasingly expensive you dont wan't to have a large empire that cannot afford to fend for itself after the 1700s.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Temple doesn't increase base tax, just tax income. Does it still increase FL? I forget. Like I said, I don't normally build much...

Temples still raise FL. After fleecing for some money in a quick BYZ runthrough I peppered Greece/Balkans in them and got a few extra guys. AFAIK it's still 1 FL per 4 tax, of course things like quantity stack on that.

Quantity is amazing with buildings, since it reduces the monarch point cost of buildings and it also multiplies the effect of temple/military FL and manpower you get from buildings.

As for balance, buildings are fine. If you made them too much better, they'd overpower other, more risky options and it would be a game of "spam these first regardless".

I wish PDS saw that instead of balancing them out as if theyre MMORPG talent trees. You want to do x then you need y country 'spec', oh that group is weak/never taken, here have this singular bonus that makes little sense instead of brainstorming why a particular group doesnt work in the overall narrative/meta

Patch 1.8 altered the balance of combat significantly; quantity is pretty good straight up just because pips and dice are less likely to cause large casualties in one round. Absent large discipline differences or tactics, a little reinforcement goes a long way.

 

[ChildeR]

Buildings shouldn't cost any monarch points, but the amount of money per tier should be greatly increased to compensate. At the moment, you can still easily swim in money and there is nothing to spend them on.

Monarch points discourage construction works at all :C

It's one of the few things that give any kind of an advantage to smaller nations, so I'd hate to see it go. The main thing I'd change is make some buildings be destroyed when a province changes hands (at least through military annexation). That way there might be an interest in building them yourself, rather than letting your rivals do it for you. Maybe then I'd actually build them on purpose rather than just dumping extra monarch points on them.

 

[Vergil_dgk]

Slightly off topic, but it would be cool if it was possible to build roads for your armies through key provinces without having to go through the entire regular trade line of Buildings first.

 

[Denkt]

A core cost 25 adm points per base tax without any modifiers.
A temple cost 10 adm points and give one base tax to the province.
Temple don't give any aggresive expansion while accuring land useally do.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

A core cost 25 adm points per base tax without any modifiers.
A temple cost 10 adm points and give one base tax to the province.
Temple don't give any aggresive expansion while accuring land useally do.

Cores are 20 base cost, not 25 AFAIK.

Mil buildings are 100% useless if you expand. If I have too much mil tech points I waiste them on re-rolling generals.

Military buildings are good in a few provinces you build up to treasuries. -Regiment cost reduces maintenance too, so you can save a lot of money by concentrating your recruitment in such provinces, and enough time while recruiting to make the buildings worthwhile. In SP it's hard to picture needing this in more than 4 provinces though...even 2 is usually enough to spam out 100's of troops at reduced cost. Still, it's helpful to toss a few ducats and points on that because the maintenance savings are quite large.

 

[Vergil_dgk]

It would be difficult to implement, but you could have certain Buildings that increased the likelihood of getting certain advisors and have units recruited in provinces with a higher number of military buildings have higher discipline and morale. Road networks that didn't require all the other 3 diplotechs but allowed for progressively faster movement through key provinces (and possibly higher supplylimit) would also be good. Also, it might be fun to have to build roads towards particular fronts in order for reinforcements to arrive quicker - just some random ideas.

 

[Denkt]

I would give buildings a small tech reduction like ideas do and move monarch point saver to economy.

 

[yerm]

Monarch point cost is just a crutch to prevent buildings from being dumped everywhere if money permits. The problem with this is that there's too much money to go around and there SHOULD be a way to dump it on expensive yet insignificant projects like buildings. If they removed the mp cost and multiplied everything's current cost by its tier, it'd be awesome.

 

[Denkt]

Monarch point cost is just a crutch to prevent buildings from being dumped everywhere if money permits. The problem with this is that there's too much money to go around and there SHOULD be a way to dump it on expensive yet insignificant projects like buildings. If they removed the mp cost and multiplied everything's current cost by its tier, it'd be awesome.

It would be bad and also make income even more dominate then it is now.
Their is pretty good resons why they have limited building construction since many years now.