Are buildings generally ok? Do they cost too many monarch points?

[CaptainChiatrol]

Are buildings generally ok? Do they cost too many monarch points?

I build temples, I build the resource production buildings, and I build the one per nation unique buildings. I sometimes do a quick bust of catching up on other buildings when I have a lot of MP to spare but I get the feeling the cost is just to high for most buildings and unless I'm ahead on MP so far I'm going to bump into the cap I just don't touch most of the available buildings.

I tend to expand a lot though so when you have a over a hundred provinces putting an 8 cost (assuming you have quantity) it costs 800 mp to put in on each one and I can't justify that cost on individual provinces.

Is it just me?

 

[Seraphithan]

In my experience they aren't worth it if you are large and want to continue to expand. If either of this isn't true they can be useful.

Personally I build roughly only the following stuff:

• Complete admin line in capitol
• Complete military and production to 4 in my recruitment provinces
• Complete trade line in center of trade and estuary provinces for nodes with high competition
• One or two naval lines for faster fleet repairs
• Military in primary/accepted culture provinces until I feel I have enough manpower/manpower recovery

 

[ashmizen]

Are buildings generally ok? Do they cost too many monarch points?

I build temples, I build the resource production buildings, and I build the one per nation unique buildings. I sometimes do a quick bust of catching up on other buildings when I have a lot of MP to spare but I get the feeling the cost is just to high for most buildings and unless I'm ahead on MP so far I'm going to bump into the cap I just don't touch most of the available buildings.

I tend to expand a lot though so when you have a over a hundred provinces putting an 8 cost (assuming you have quantity) it costs 800 mp to put in on each one and I can't justify that cost on individual provinces.

Is it just me?

Buildings are one of those weird things that don't really make sense if you are a large empire. A country with 100x provinces have 100x income to pay for 100x buildings...so far so good....but it's Monarch points are the SAME as a one province minor!
So basically, for a small country, the biggest cost is actually the gold, and thus building a few buildings might cost 50 monarch points to increase manpower or base tax by 5%. A great deal!
For a large empire (which any player's country will become), it will cost like 1000 or more points to increase manpower or base tax by 5%, a terrible deal.

So weirdly, large, wealthy empires actually have very little incentive to build buildings, certainly far less than small countries. Gameplay wise it's balancing, as large empires hardly need any more buffs, and OPM's need all the help it can get. It is odd though to see mid game China with lots of provinces without basic infrastructure, while random improvised south asian countries and islands have much higher level buildings.

It seems everything that buildings provide - more manpower, more base tax (money + force limit), more trade money, more production money - are all things that huge empires don't need anyway. Trading Monarch points for those doesn't make much sense unless you are too far ahead in tech, since you get so little bang for the buck. If you have to trade 2-3 technologies worth of points to get a single building built on all your provinces, it's clearly not worth it.

 

[vranasm]

the manufactures are usually always worth it no matter the size of empire
unique buildings too

regular buildings, I would recommend temples everywhere. Other then that, not much worth for empire bigger then 30 provinces.
some regular buildings help you transition in really big blob, so you will probably spend money on the first 10-15 provinces, later you will just focus on manufactures etc.

 

[WeissRaben]

If the game wasn't only about expanding, they would be fine. As it is, they are borderline useless in most cases.

 

[artemis667]

Buildings can make a big difference in the early game, but if you're in full on expansion mode, ideas and technologies have far more relative power. So the buildings become sadly less relevant as time progresses - unless you've somehow disciplined yourself to stay small.
That said, I made a mod that allows you to, in short, choose to sacrifice a bit of tax and some small modifiers, to build buildings for less power point costs but slightly more money. I'm looking forward to giving it a go, just trying to get the AI to know how to take it first. Obviously not ironman compatible - I never play Ironman But I like building.

 

[ChildeR]

I build them when I'm running into the MP cap. Unique buildings and occasionally manufactories otherwise as well, but regular buildings pretty much only when there's nothing else. Excepting gold provinces, of course...

regular buildings, I would recommend temples everywhere.

The first two production buildings often have better ROI than two temples would, if the base tax or trade good is decent. You get both production and trade value, from goods produced.

 

[DKinator]

I build them when I'm running into the MP cap. Unique buildings and occasionally manufactories otherwise as well, but regular buildings pretty much only when there's nothing else. Excepting gold provinces, of course...



The first two production buildings often have better ROI than two temples would, if the base tax or trade good is decent. You get both production and trade value, from goods produced.

The point of temples is that the base tax increases one's force-limits.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

If the game wasn't only about expanding, they would be fine. As it is, they are borderline useless in most cases.

I have had plenty of interesting games, which weren't about expanding as I stayed small and focused to other things instead of painting the map.

And building buildings certainly helped to improve my small realm.

 

[e_quality]

Are buildings generally ok? Do they cost too many monarch points?

I build temples, I build the resource production buildings, and I build the one per nation unique buildings. I sometimes do a quick bust of catching up on other buildings when I have a lot of MP to spare but I get the feeling the cost is just to high for most buildings and unless I'm ahead on MP so far I'm going to bump into the cap I just don't touch most of the available buildings.

I tend to expand a lot though so when you have a over a hundred provinces putting an 8 cost (assuming you have quantity) it costs 800 mp to put in on each one and I can't justify that cost on individual provinces.

Is it just me?

I like to expand moderatly and I like to build. Still, 10 points per building is expensive. I have changed the cost to 5 which makes the game more fun for me.

 

[artemis667]

The point of temples is that the base tax increases one's force-limits.

And base tax ratios for diplovassalising, if you're playing that game, only slight, but sometimes it's enough to make a difference.
Almost all of the buildings are situational, when it gets down to it, but temples are good in every situation. 80 admin points, 400 gold, and you might as well have just received an 8 base tax province, of your culture and religion, all readily cored and free of nationalism and local autonomy.

 

[ChildeR]

The point of temples is that the base tax increases one's force-limits.

Temple doesn't increase base tax, just tax income. Does it still increase FL? I forget. Like I said, I don't normally build much...

 

[CaptainChiatrol]

I like to expand moderatly and I like to build. Still, 10 points per building is expensive. I have changed the cost to 5 which makes the game more fun for me.

I may not be the expert but when I compare large empires I'd feel better about the MP cost if it scaled down as you built more. If the cost was maybe 10-2% per existing building of that type capping at 1 after 50 of them.

As it stands though it gets crazy enough to make the whole mechanic often feel a bit weird.

 

[Beagá]

You don´t need to build everywhere. It´s not like All provinces in Sweden were as developed as Stockholm in real life now, were they?

The top tier building are expensive in gold but "cheap" in monarch points. So ultimatedly what you will want to do is focus buildings and build the top tier ones. "Oh but they are expensive" for that you have Economy ideas, which some people say are crap. Go figure.

 

[Zak Preston]

Temple doesn't increase base tax, just tax income. Does it still increase FL? I forget. Like I said, I don't normally build much...

Temple increases tax by 1, and any tax increases FL.

 

[CaptainChiatrol]

You don´t need to build everywhere. It´s not like All provinces in Sweden were as developed as Stockholm in real life now, were they?

The top tier building are expensive in gold but "cheap" in monarch points. So ultimatedly what you will want to do is focus buildings and build the top tier ones. "Oh but they are expensive" for that you have Economy ideas, which some people say are crap. Go figure.

Is even that it worth it though?

For instance the highest tier admin build in a province will get you +4 tax, -3 local unrest, +105% local tax, +25% local spy, +10% Local defensiveness, and +3% local missionary strength.

The cost will be 60 MP and gold. it's all local so when I have enough tech for the 18 tech needed for that I can't justify it on a single province at all. When I have 10 key rich provinces out of my several hundred that's 600 MP.

 

[Latheloi]

I prioritise spending on temples, and on the trade line for all my estuary's/centres (and potentially pushing trade values up in trade company regions). I also build up the admin line for the regiment cost reduction on a core region where I make sure I recruit as many regiments from as possible (and all of my artillery).

Distant, isolated provinces also get targeted for fortress line as well.

After that, I tend to add buildings gradually, when I am approaching MP limits while waiting for the ahead of time penalty to reduce. They tend to go where I will get the biggest gains first. I also build up to road networks in... well, logical road networks across my core empire. I've had a continuous run from Mysore to Marrakesh in one game.

The combination of the extra MP and the reduction in expansion from the humilate wargoal has meant that I have had LOADS of spare points on my current Spanish game.

 

[JPGM22]

For western countries it's easy to construct buildings. Cheap tech means lots of MP. for eastern or other tech groups it's very difficult to build buildings because each MP should be saved to advance technologicly buy ideas...

 

[Beagá]

Is even that it worth it though?

For instance the highest tier admin build in a province will get you +4 tax, -3 local unrest, +105% local tax, +25% local spy, +10% Local defensiveness, and +3% local missionary strength.

The cost will be 60 MP and gold. it's all local so when I have enough tech for the 18 tech needed for that I can't justify it on a single province at all. When I have 10 key rich provinces out of my several hundred that's 600 MP.

The trick are manufactories and buildings that increase production and trade power. And naturally some countries are starved for manpower, and thus you will also want top tier military buildings. The Cathedral isn´t that hot? Depends - the previous buildings already gave a tax % increase. So if you build the Temple line in provinces with BT 7 or more, it was worth already to build at least the first 4 buildings. The Cathedral is just the cherry in the cake (and the missionary and unrest and quite pointless, yes, the goal really is tax).

 

[Freudia]

Manufactories are pretty much the only buildings I build when I get big. When starting out I'll build temples/armories and whatnot just to build up a core set of provinces. I tend to play very small minor powers/OPMs so those core provinces matter.