Are Allies really that weak?!

[Stuka_Hunter]

Greetings

So I tried for the third time to play with Yugoslavia and this time I actually managed to do quite well. I went communist, so Soviets guaranteed my independance when Italy, Hungary and Germany attacked in early 1940. I set up fortress lines of strenght 2 on the historically defendable positions in the southern part of the country (sacrifising Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and those two smaller eastern lands in the process, setting up factories in the kept lands accordingly). I caused massive losses to the Axis, with prettymuch a 1:8 ratio, despite being heavily outnumbered, carefuly managing my manpower. Allies managed to beat the Axis forces in north Africa, so they actually helped me alot by bringing around 30 divisions to my help in defending, when Romania went axis in late 1940. Around that time Italy declared war on Greece, much to my surprise since they had no clear path to their territory.

But then the troubles started to develop.

Its early 1941 and Britain is losing so many manpower by throwing their divisions ON THE OFFENSIVE OVER THE RIVERS AGAINST A VASTLY SUPERIOR ENEMY! They also attempted some naval landings in Italy and Vichy, got on land, but left soon after (?). Not to mention that Soviet Union, despite actually having the capacity to completely decimate Hungary, Slovakia and Romania, could barely hold their own frontline, so I recieved the bulk of Hungarian, Romanian and nearly all Italian divisions coming at me, with around 8000 Axis planes compared to Allies 1400 stationed on my territory at best. Italy is also pumping fascism into Bulgaria, so I expect to be backstabbed by them in mid 1941.

At this time my manpower shortage is really becoming apparent and Allies do nothing but waste theirs like mad men. Japan will soon attack Philippines I think, drawing America into the war. I just hope they do something helpful...

My question: when I play as Germany, I always get stomped by Allies and cant even get France, but when I play as Yugoslavia and successfully defend half of my country for a whole year, then Allies just make stupid moves against the Axis. Why the #### is that so?!

 

[Zauberelefant]

Greetings

So I tried for the third time to play with Yugoslavia and this time I actually managed to do quite well. I went communist, so Soviets guaranteed my independance when Italy, Hungary and Germany attacked in early 1940. I set up fortress lines of strenght 2 on the historically defendable positions in the southern part of the country (sacrifising Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and those two smaller eastern lands in the process, setting up factories in the kept lands accordingly). I caused massive losses to the Axis, with prettymuch a 1:8 ratio, despite being heavily outnumbered, carefuly managing my manpower. Allies managed to beat the Axis forces in north Africa, so they actually helped me alot by bringing around 30 divisions to my help in defending, when Romania went axis in late 1940. Around that time Italy declared war on Greece, much to my surprise since they had no clear path to their territory.

But then the troubles started to develop.

Its early 1941 and Britain is losing so many manpower by throwing their divisions ON THE OFFENSIVE OVER THE RIVERS AGAINST A VASTLY SUPERIOR ENEMY! They also attempted some naval landings in Italy and Vichy, got on land, but left soon after (?). Not to mention that Soviet Union, despite actually having the capacity to completely decimate Hungary, Slovakia and Romania, could barely hold their own frontline, so I recieved the bulk of Hungarian, Romanian and nearly all Italian divisions coming at me, with around 8000 Axis planes compared to Allies 1400 stationed on my territory at best. Italy is also pumping fascism into Bulgaria, so I expect to be backstabbed by them in mid 1941.

At this time my manpower shortage is really becoming apparent and Allies do nothing but waste theirs like mad men. Japan will soon attack Philippines I think, drawing America into the war. I just hope they do something helpful...

My question: when I play as Germany, I always get stomped by Allies and cant even get France, but when I play as Yugoslavia and successfully defend half of my country for a whole year, then Allies just make stupid moves against the Axis. Why the #### is that so?!

One hypothesis: you are bad at playing Germany. The AI always sucks, so when you do good, it performs badly, when you do badly, it appears competent.
Also, France and britain are actually coded to do better vs Germany, so it's not all on you

 

[Simon_9732495]

Why is the AI carrying out "hopeless" attacks:

• Because in HOI4 you can break almost any defense by circling enough attacking divisions, because then the defense can never regain org. (As long as the defender is not circling as well)
• The AI tries this strategy maybe a bit to often. But the other way, the AI not attacking a defense it could break with some effort, would be even more frustrating.
• And it gives the game more dynamic, if an attacker attacks until exhaustion. Games would be more boring if the attacker would just stop attacking and build up a very good defense, if the attack is not going well. It would end in a stalemate more often. But if the attacker attacks unconditional it's either win all or lose all.

Why is the UK not bringing more airplanes to Yugoslavia:

• I think the prioritize air zones near England. Balkan is far away. Do you even have enough airports for more than 1400 airplanes?

 

[Stuka_Hunter]

One hypothesis: you are bad at playing Germany. The AI always sucks, so when you do good, it performs badly, when you do badly, it appears competent.
Also, France and britain are actually coded to do better vs Germany, so it's not all on you

Hmm perhaps it is so... We shall see how the situation develops haha.

Why is the AI carrying out "hopeless" attacks:

• Because in HOI4 you can break almost any defense by circling enough attacking divisions, because then the defense can never regain org. (As long as the defender is not circling as well)
• The AI tries this strategy maybe a bit to often. But the other way, the AI not attacking a defense it could break with some effort, would be even more frustrating.
• And it gives the game more dynamic, if an attacker attacks until exhaustion. Games would be more boring if the attacker would just stop attacking and build up a very good defense, if the attack is not going well. It would end in a stalemate more often. But if the attacker attacks unconditional it's either win all or lose all.

Why is the UK not bringing more airplanes to Yugoslavia:

• I think the prioritize air zones near England. Balkan is far away. Do you even have enough airports for more than 1400 airplanes?

When it comes to airfield capacity, I have 1400 in Albania, 400 in Macedonia and 1000 in Serbia. And since Greece is now a war participant, 1800 capacity from their three major airfields.

 

[seymouruk]

I'm not sure if it's the case anymore but I believe that earlier versions of HOI and other Paradox games the AI always made a beeline for you, the human player, at the sacrifice of performance elsewhere. Hence you as Yugoslavia bearing the brunt of the main Axis focus in this game and the brunt of the Allies focus in your last game as Germany.

 

[Simon_9732495]

When it comes to airfield capacity, I have 1400 in Albania, 400 in Macedonia and 1000 in Serbia. And since Greece is now a war participant, 1800 capacity from their three major airfields.

Ok. It's not the airfields, but the UK priority. If you want air superiority you will have to do it yourself.
This might be impossible so you should add some Anti-Air in your divisions.

 

[Stuka_Hunter]

Ok. It's not the airfields, but the UK priority. If you want air superiority you will have to do it yourself.
This might be impossible so you should add some Anti-Air in your divisions.

That is also impossible. I constantly have to repair infrastructure and bunkers and I barely have enough factories for already existing templates I use. :/

I did however manage to build 4 static AA defences on the lands I am defending. Although I doubt it does anything...

A little update: USA joined the war against the Axis and Bulgaria researched the neutrality focus... Even the AI has probably realised that there is a ####show and decided that enough is enough xD

 

[noobermenschen]

That is also impossible. I constantly have to repair infrastructure and bunkers and I barely have enough factories for already existing templates I use. :/

I did however manage to build 4 static AA defences on the lands I am defending. Although I doubt it does anything...

A little update: USA joined the war against the Axis and Bulgaria researched the neutrality focus... Even the AI has probably realised that there is a ####show and decided that enough is enough xD

Radar is a great force multiplier in air battles. It may be tough to research as Yugo but even getting to the 1938 tech* will allow you to build lvl 2 state radars, a couple of those should cover the entire Eastern Balkans air zone. Also 1936 fighters should have the range to cover nearly the entire air zone so put your first 175 air XP into getting your production fighter to +5 engines. That may not help short term with the numbers but you will start shooting down many more aircraft than you are losing. And if the enemy is bombing buildings (your infrastructure is likely being damaged by land battles) then your AA is shooting down enemy bombers in addition to contributing to your air superiority.

*Since it's already past 1940 your are in the middle of a huge research crunch, this is easier to do from a 1936 start before you hit that 1939-43 research bottleneck. But if it looks like a long war and you have radios it may be worth it to research and get a radar or two built. Since you are helping Ivan with a second front you should crush the Nazis in the long run, keep hanging on!

 

[Emren]

That is also impossible. I constantly have to repair infrastructure and bunkers and I barely have enough factories for already existing templates I use. :/

I did however manage to build 4 static AA defences on the lands I am defending. Although I doubt it does anything...

A little update: USA joined the war against the Axis and Bulgaria researched the neutrality focus... Even the AI has probably realised that there is a ####show and decided that enough is enough xD

State AA will not help out in land battles, but help against enemy strat bombers and port strikes.

 

[Stuka_Hunter]

Sit-rep:

Bulgaria, despite being "neutral" acording to their focuses, went Axis in mid 1942. This left the only exposed flank, the south-eastern one, free for Bulgarian, Romanian, Spanish and Venezuelan (Venezuela is sending quite alot of ecpeditionary divisions to the Axis, yet is refueling Dutch subs and is guaranteed by USA???) troops to enter. I evacuated half of my troops and all my airplanes to Africa, but the other half is still successfully defending Belgrade with around 15 Anglo-American divisions against a ####load of Axis troops. So I still didnt surrender and Greece is defending itself nicely, because the Axis funneled most of the resources to Belgrade. We shall see how long this lasts though...

And how are Allies doing elsewhere? Soviets are going to loose Moscow most likely, Japan only now defeated China, America occupied half of Japan and western Allies have made 4 naval invasions: Vichy, the middle of Italy, Benelux and Norway. The last two have suceeded, the first two will fail despite being promising.

Also Iceland went Axis and lost to one American division. And Slovakia is now a protectorate of Hungary, German Reich caved in after Hungarian demands. What the actual ####. XD

 

[Paul.Ketcham]

Sit-rep:

Bulgaria, despite being "neutral" acording to their focuses, went Axis in mid 1942. This left the only exposed flank, the south-eastern one, free for Bulgarian, Romanian, Spanish and Venezuelan (Venezuela is sending quite alot of ecpeditionary divisions to the Axis, yet is refueling Dutch subs and is guaranteed by USA???) troops to enter. I evacuated half of my troops and all my airplanes to Africa, but the other half is still successfully defending Belgrade with around 15 Anglo-American divisions against a ####load of Axis troops. So I still didnt surrender and Greece is defending itself nicely, because the Axis funneled most of the resources to Belgrade. We shall see how long this lasts though...

And how are Allies doing elsewhere? Soviets are going to loose Moscow most likely, Japan only now defeated China, America occupied half of Japan and western Allies have made 4 naval invasions: Vichy, the middle of Italy, Benelux and Norway. The last two have suceeded, the first two will fail despite being promising.

Also Iceland went Axis and lost to one American division. And Slovakia is now a protectorate of Hungary, German Reich caved in after Hungarian demands. What the actual ####. XD

A few minor points here:

1.) Bulgaria is almost always going to join the Axis due to Italian focuses, and this is fairly realistic (albeit historically it was the Germans scaring them into the Axis, along with Romania and Hungary and nearly Yugoslavia). Unless they join a different faction the Italian "Befriend Bulgaria" focus gives a significant boost to fascist support in diplomacy even while they remain nonaligned (I think +85 to support for Axis diplomatic offers).

2.) The guarantee on Venezuela is part of the Monroe doctrine and is there from the start of the game; the US never removes these guarantees itself. Venezuela always sends a disproportionate number of troops to the Axis since fascists get ridiculous manpower bonuses and honestly the South American fascists would be more accurately-represented as pro-fascist nonaligned nations (Venezuela wasn't even pro-Axis historically, although fascist sentiments were strong in parts of Latin America and nations like Peru or El Salvador are a little closer to reality). Not sure why they're letting the Dutch use their ports though.

3.) Iceland spawns with no industry or troops, so they're a bit screwed in the event of an attack.

4.) I have never seen Hungary actually get Slovakia from Germany, so that's weird.

Two personal recommendations I also have: maintenance companies (even 1936-tech) and AA support companies. AA will massively-reduce the (likely permanent) debuffs from enemy air superiority, while maintenance companies will enable you to maintain way more equipment than you'd expect (both through retaining equipment in the field, but also capturing thousands of rifles and plenty of other equipment on top of that).

 

[Robb92]

(Venezuela wasn't even pro-Axis historically, although fascist sentiments were strong in parts of Latin America and nations like Peru or El Salvador are a little closer to reality). Not sure why they're letting the Dutch use their ports though.

I would not say that Perù's case is closer to reality. Its starting leader should be non-aligned and not particularly pro-axis. He was installed as temporary dictator specifically to thwart the local fascist leader

 

[Paul.Ketcham]

I would not say that Perù's case is closer to reality. Its starting leader should be non-aligned and not particularly pro-axis. He was installed as temporary dictator specifically to thwart the local fascist leader

Honestly I have only superficial understandings of most Latin American politics, so I'm not especially surprised here; the point was more that it was, at least, more fascistic than Venezuela. Either way, however, none of the Latin American powers was mobilized in a fascistic way (+7% manpower is a bit ridiculous in general), and the confusing thing is that even some of the democratic powers were at least mildly pro-Axis (i.e. Chile). Considering that several nonaligned powers in Europe actually were (i.e. Greece, Poland) but didn't get any of the overpowered fascist free manpower, makes the Latino fascists particularly egregious.

Fascist and communist influences in the Americas, and the need therein for the US to reign in their own influence via their Pan-American efforts, aren't very well represented in the game, and regardless the bonuses and political loyalties of the likes of Venezuela and Peru are even more ridiculous when you consider Venezuela mainly funded Britain and Peru joined the Allies in 1944.

 

[DukofDeth]

A few minor points here:

1.) Bulgaria is almost always going to join the Axis due to Italian focuses, and this is fairly realistic (albeit historically it was the Germans scaring them into the Axis, along with Romania and Hungary and nearly Yugoslavia). Unless they join a different faction the Italian "Befriend Bulgaria" focus gives a significant boost to fascist support in diplomacy even while they remain nonaligned (I think +85 to support for Axis diplomatic offers).

2.) The guarantee on Venezuela is part of the Monroe doctrine and is there from the start of the game; the US never removes these guarantees itself. Venezuela always sends a disproportionate number of troops to the Axis since fascists get ridiculous manpower bonuses and honestly the South American fascists would be more accurately-represented as pro-fascist nonaligned nations (Venezuela wasn't even pro-Axis historically, although fascist sentiments were strong in parts of Latin America and nations like Peru or El Salvador are a little closer to reality). Not sure why they're letting the Dutch use their ports though.

3.) Iceland spawns with no industry or troops, so they're a bit screwed in the event of an attack.

4.) I have never seen Hungary actually get Slovakia from Germany, so that's weird.

Two personal recommendations I also have: maintenance companies (even 1936-tech) and AA support companies. AA will massively-reduce the (likely permanent) debuffs from enemy air superiority, while maintenance companies will enable you to maintain way more equipment than you'd expect (both through retaining equipment in the field, but also capturing thousands of rifles and plenty of other equipment on top of that).

I've seen Hungary get Slovakia in one game, and oddly, I believe the Germans were strong then. But they were not anywhere near Hungary [deep in Russia or garrisoning European ports]. But it was only the one time.