Ardabil Help

[nmcj1996]

Hi all,

Long time player here, but recently taken a break since about 1.20. I’ve been trying to do an ardabil Safavid resurgence and form Persia, but been having lots of difficulty with the start. I’ve tried maybe 7 or 8 times now and never made it past about 1490 - I always get crushed by QQ, can’t expand because of warnings from Ajam and QQ and get attacked by the Golden Horde if I go north.

If anyone has any advice, please please help!

 

[Bebou]

I just finished a campaign with Ardabil -> Persia so as to try and revive the Sasanian Empire. In many games QQ starts as friendly to you so you can ally them off the bat and use them as a battering ram against Ajam.

If they do start as friendly then ally them and do as mentioned above. Note they will want land in return for their help but you can occasionally screw them over and give them nothing. If you have high relations and are giving them trade power they may not dissolve the alliance. At one point I brought them down to 35 trust and they didn't break the alliance. At some point they will get declared on or will declare on the Ottomans. This is your chance to screw them over and ignore the call to arms wait out the 5 years, they may still be fighting and declare into them taking as much as humanly possible.

From that point keep looking for opportunities to expand East into Mazandaran and whats left of Timmies and their former vassals.

If they do not start as friendly, even if Ajam and QQ warn you, all you have to do is wait for them to declare on the minors near you such as Shirvan or that country whose name starts with B i forgot what it is but it boarders you. When they declare, you declare right after (they wont intervene as they are fighting them also) and occupy as many provinces as you can using their armies to beat the enemies. They often wander around trying to kill the enemy army giving you time to occupy and siege the province. You can even use their men to siege just make sure you land one stack before they arrive. Slowly build up your power base until you can challenge the other regional powers like qq.

Hope this helps a bit but if you have any specific questions please feel free to ask.

On a side note, I really wish the Sassanid Empire was a formable country :O

 

[caedussl]

Make sure QQ is friendly to you and allies you. If not, it’s much harder. Good news is I’d say it’s at least half the time. Call in you starting ally against the 2PM beside you for land, don’t give them land. You start with 60 trust so you’re kosher. Hopefully at this point Shirvan allies someone like Mutasha, so you can kill them either by yourself and Mutasha doesn’t get access, or you can drop Ardabil before that happens. From that point you’re decently big, and with QQ you should be able to fight Ajam (even if Ajam has allies like Transoxiana). From there it’s just careful expansion, Mazandaran, Luristan, Timmy remnant, backstab Gilian and QQ. When you form Persia, it updates your relationship with all countries so it also removes the neutral malus with the Ottoman. If you want easy mode you can ally them at this point (assuming you have high relationships) and the you can easily go for This is Persia afterwards).

 

[sigeena]

The only thing to note is restart till QQ is friendly.

Something to consider, is whether you want to switch from Ardabil ideas to Persia ideas. Persian ideas bring alot more wealth, whereas Ardabil's ones are somewhat more militaristic and expansionistic.

Try and keep Gilan as a vassal. Then you can always invite Zaidi scholars for -10% shock damage received. This couple with Jafari +10% shock damage dealt... That's approx. 10% discipline in shock phase.

With super morale from Shia, Mysticism, and ideas, you can even stackwipe Ottoman armies during the Age of Reformation

 

[Bebou]

I'd say Persian ideas are better militarily. Ardabil ideas are better if you want a more stable kingdom with the shift towards mysticism and thus quicker conversions. but thats just me.

 

[herrhals]

opm starts requires you to be opportunistic. Don't worry about a slow start. There will be plenty of time later to go on a massive conquering spree.

 

[Splax77]

One thing to note about land promises: You can make them lose up to 10 trust and still be good, more than that and nobody will honor land promises for 30 years.

 

[Rabid]

One thing to note about land promises: You can make them lose up to 10 trust and still be good, more than that and nobody will honor land promises for 30 years.

I wasn't 100% sure how this worked so thanks for clarifying that!

OP: restart until QQ are friendly, use them as a club to murder Ajam, keep them as an ally until you've properly dealt with Timurids and friends.

 

[omar44]

I was trying to get the Shahanshah achievement since 1.23 was out and I finally made it today.
- QQ and Shirvan started friendly so I allied them both.
- I took all of Biapas with the help of Shirvan (I didn't call Gilan because I didn't want them to ask me for land, so I broke the alliance eventually).
- The Timurids split up and Ajam took a couple of provinces. I called QQ and Mushaha against Ajam and while at war I conquered Gilan (I was warned by Ajam and they were allied to QQ so I blitzkrieg-ed them). After annexing Gilan and I peaced out with Ajam (I only took back my cores and gave Ardalan to QQ)
- Fars, Khorasan and Transoxiana attacked Ajam and got some provinces
- I broke alliance with QQ because The Mamluks had a claim on them
- I attacked Ajam and took all of its provinces, QQ was outraged and rivaled me
- The Mamluks attacked QQ but white peaced afterwards
- QQ attacked me with the help of Mazandaran, I annexed the latter and peaced out with QQ for a lot of money
- Fars puked Isfahan, Yazd and Kerman so I got them quickly
- Ottos took some provinces from Mamluks then took others from QQ, then I attacked QQ with the help of Shirvan and got Tabriz and the provinces from its state (plus Shiraz because Fars was left that province only)
- I cored everything necessary and annexed Luristan who was my vassal and had Hamadan then I formed Persia
Afterwards I was taking back some of my permanent claim because Ottos were attacking and I didn't want them to get those before me, so eventually I got coallied by them and quitted.
I have to admit that sometimes I make copies of the save file whenever things were going well, if things didn't go the way I wanted I delete de save file and replace it with an old copy and move on.

 

[cuendillar]

I had both QQ and Ajam hostile to me from the start. QQ also guaranteed all nations bordering me, but that still didn't make it restart-worthy. I hung in there, improved relations to the max with both Ajam and QQ while allying whoever would be useful - I prefer nations bordering my potential targets. Due to my diplomats, QQ annd Ajam hated each other more than they hated me, so me and my allies mopped up the minors while the big bads were so busy fighting each other that they'd refuse to join against me.

After several wars, Ajam fell to QQ and I made certain to dogpile and win the occupations - at which point I secured an alliance with AQ and beat QQ decisively in our third war.

 

[cihan]

To start with, use new Muslim schools to get the perfect combo of +10 shock damage and -10 shock damage received. Even though in the new system lowering piety is very difficult, Ardabil's national idea lowers piety so getting +25 morale is such a big boost. That morale boost is such an overkill. Combining that with Defensive ideas will grant +15 more morale, its almost guaranteed that you can't lose battles before mil tech 15.
Target the small countries, you don't need to rush. Consolidate power by annexing the small ones. then go for the big ones. QQ has low religious unity so it will end up with rebellions at some point. /Unless you're not playing above normal difficulty.
To tackle the issue of income, you have basically very limited options all in or die. You start taking loans in a war non stop because of reinforcements but those loans are very small. They will just increase your inflation. However, you can pay your loans with new loans after you conquer territories. Such as the amount of loan a nation can get is determined by its development. The more territory you have the more loans you can get. If you have 20 development when the game started, but conquered +60 more development in the following years, your debts will pay each other. Then you can reduce inflation by Admin points. Or if you have high Legalism you can use it to reduce -2 corruption.

 

[Rabid]

Worth pointing out that if you're planning to use QQ to beat up Ajam, make sure that QQ has Ajam as a rival. Otherwise they will only mark provinces as strategic interest and won't allow you to call them to war.

I just had a very weird game where Shah Rukh died in Dec 1444, Ajam immediately blitzed every independent state to their north within 5 years other than me + Shirvan (both QQ allies) and Timurids are still unified in the 1450s in spite of Shah Rukh dying early (they aren't declaring any wars, presumably the Timurid AI is scared of its own vassals). This sounds 'interesting' to play through as I've never seen a successful Ajam + Timurids at the same time, but I'd rather not have to spend decades at speed 5.

 

[ShahanShah]

You need QQ to actually do anything, but be careful because he will act like a total retard when fighting Ajam, because Ajam has too entry points. You need Mushasha as well, he's surprisingly a great ally with good ideas. Another thing to watch out for is if Ajam allies the Timurid vassals who are incredibly annoying to deal with.

 

[Rabid]

You need QQ to actually do anything, but be careful because he will act like a total retard when fighting Ajam, because Ajam has too entry points. You need Mushasha as well, he's surprisingly a great ally with good ideas. Another thing to watch out for is if Ajam allies the Timurid vassals who are incredibly annoying to deal with.

Mushasha and QQ are usually not very good friends and may not want to both ally you at the same time, but yes if you can get both of them to help you vs. Ajam you should be able to totally roll them. Usually Ajam and Timurids have an early hellwar so you can just waltz in with a little help from QQ doing seiges.

 

[ShahanShah]

Mushasha and QQ are usually not very good friends and may not want to both ally you at the same time, but yes if you can get both of them to help you vs. Ajam you should be able to totally roll them. Usually Ajam and Timurids have an early hellwar so you can just waltz in with a little help from QQ doing seiges.

I actually find that Mush and QQ don't hate each other much when you're the player, yeah QQ have a Mush core but it's very easy to ally both of them, unless they outright rival each other. But if you can get them fighting in wars before Mush gets big enough to rival him they will begin to like each other.