- ARCHIVE - Imperial Diet of the Holy Roman Empire

[Longinus]

Landgraf Otton von Blumentritt, Imperial emissary extraordiner, rose to speak in order to address many issues.

“Most Noble Princes, Delegates and Guests of the Empire,

I came before you in order to speak for His Majesty who currently leads Imperial Armies against rebels and foreign aggressors. I have corresponded with his Majesty and thus will present his opinion on many matters.

First is the issue of Danish aggression and Holstein rebellion. His Majesty is most pleased that Frederik of Denmark suddenly decided to sit before negotiation table and talk about peace not war for a change. The fact that duke of Holstein wishes to accept Imperial punishment is also reassuring, righteous prevailed upon treachery. His Majesty will soon send his representatives to Haidelberg.

Second issue is also important as another enemy within reveled himself. Herr Habsburg-Jager letter, although written in most disgusting and hmm “simple” manner of commoner did prove to be useful in judging past events, for example Danish involvement in provoking Civil War within the Empire. It should be our prime concern now to catch the usurper and punish his House. As for this very punishment nothing shall be decided without the joint approval of His Majesty, Imperial government and Diet. I am currently forwarding all suggestions heard here directly to His Majesty.

Third issue is that of Genoa. His Majesty wishes to remind that the City itself was brought under Imperial cloak again, as suspected it turned out that people living there were forced to follow heretics and rebels. Please do not refer to Genoa as traitors anymore, instead speak of Despot of Rhodes and his refugee pirates. Their defiance shall be crushed however, with passing time Empire grow stronger while Despot Doria is falling into even lower pits of hell. His pitiful attempts to label himself as ruler of Genoa are truly disgusting and we fail to understand why others are so eager to communicate with outcasts and pirates. Thus His Majesty praises all Imperial States who trade with Moldavia that embargoed the said realm.

Lastly the issue of Duchy of Burgundy, pardon me, “Kingdom of Lotharingia”. Let it be known that His Majesty closely follows the events surrounding Burgundy. His sadness already grow a lot since House de Berry failed in serving the Empire at all, ignored and disrespected Imperial Authority and continues this policy up to now. Thus His Majesty commands to investigate this very realm, its history of the last two decades, its constant expansion resulting in blunt annexations of fellow Imperial Princes. I would like to add however that it is not only House de Berry that did so much damage to Empire but earlier rulers as well. Sometimes, their moves were justified, sometimes not, this, should be investigated. Let us all remember that the first decade of this rapid expansion falls on the years when Empire was in the state of constant disarray, lesser princes were threatened from all sides and even such place as Bohemia itself was forcefully annexed by the late German King, Albert of Habsburg. His Majesty, however, wishes to make clear, that he swore to protect his subjects and he will continue to do so.”

Otto sights and sips some diluted wine from his goblet.

“His Majesty, Joachim the Greif, wishes also to thank all loyal Princes and Houses, he praises righteous and brave, especially those who followed his humble call and obeyed old laws and customs.

These praised are numerous and His Majesty will express his gratitude and satisfaction personally.

Glory to the Holy Roman Empire!”

After a brief pause Otto speaks again.

“His Majesty wishes also to inform this most noble assembly that after participating in long campaign he will return to Nurnberg shortly.”

 

[unmerged(9310)]

The Duke of Brabant and his family deny any involvement in the letters the Burgundians show in the diet on this day.

 

[Petrarca]

Ondrej sighed and began in a slightly defiant tone:

"It would be foolish not to note that Her Ladyship, Elisabet, Duchess of Luxemburg, or Luxembourg to more western tongues, did in fact give unto Burgundy's line the rights and dignities mentioned. And to hear of this most cruel plotting, and the implication of our cousin, the Duke of Luxemburg, in such conspiracies, troubles both His Majesty and me greatly. I know now that we must redouble our efforts to convince Luxemburg to stay from their course of aggression, should the van der Hayle claim be in fact true."

 

[unmerged(9310)]

The Flemish Delegate, Pieter turned to Ondrej.

"Indeed my Duke makes no false claims. It is not agression that drives us nor any violent aspirations, yet the idea of a free land of Wallonia not subjigated by Burgundy is a dream shared by many, good lord. The way which these burgundians attempt to make truth of their false kingdoms is alarming, and should indeed be an issue of all princes of the empire...

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau answers the Bohemian representative.

"Yes, we do hope that pressure will solve the issue. But as we speak, the ambassador of Brabant in Luxembourg has presented an alliance proposal to the House of Luxembourg. The duchy of Brabant HAVE plotted against Gelre, and I have only this letter with the van der Hayle seal to prove it. But their plot against Burgundy is real, as the scribe, and even the King of France himself, have confirmed.

Yet many princes seems to be looking for the Lotharingian demise. We have no intention on warring on them.

We have no intention of supporting them in the futre either. At the end of this, the province of Brabant will still be under vassalage of Burgundy. The House van der Hayle will be long gone.

The only question is who wants to be remembered as encouraging a plot against the House of Berry."

 

[Petrarca]

Count Rozmberk looked askance at the Flamand:

"Free people, not subject to their Christian rulers? Athens lost the Peloponnesian struggle, as I recall."

And he responded to De Laurendeau:

"It would seem incontrovertible that a conspiracy of some form exists in Brabant, either directed against Geldre or Lotharingia or separately, both. Even now we hear strong words of sedition, something that troubles us as we hear within Bohemia similar calls for the free reign of Satan and his heretical minions. I only wondered if Luxemburg too was party to this plot or plots, but the continued amity between Brabant and His Majesty's cousin appear to speak better than thousands of words. I hope that the Duke of Luxemburg will be dissuaded, though I make no promises that we can win over the deepest intentions of any man, let alone a noble Duke."

 

[unmerged(9310)]

Pieter turned back to the Count, Rozmberk. He stood and spoke, "Indeed, subject to their Christian rulers who, being of Wallonian parentage and locals of the area would know the best interests for their people. Indeed, could Bohemia be properly ruled and the interests of all the Bohemian peoples be well satisfied by a the rule of a foreign King from the west? Indeed not. As is the same with the Burgundians. The Duke of Luxembourg is as sensible as my master in these thoughts, that perhaps something can be done from stopping the massive Lotharingian expansion into the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau smiles. With quick answers came trickier questions, he thought.

"I ask this to this assembly, but most notably to the Brabant representative.

1- Your are also the vassal of a Pommeranian Emperor. Do you look into seceeding from the Empire?

2- Tell me of the lands conquered, of the expansion of the House of Berry in the Empire... which country did we conquer? Which lands did we attack? Which expension?
"

 

[unmerged(18481)]

Correano closed his eyes in despair.

‘Madness’ he thought. ‘Pure madness… plotting and shouting instead of drinking and making love with fine women… If we managed to get rid off these pesky princes, we’d live in a paradise.’

He sighed, scratched the top of his head, and stood up to speak.

“Noble lords of this most noble assembly… the informations presented by signore Laurendeau are schocking indeed, there is no better word to describe them… although ‘disgusting’ is also a good candidate.
In fact, I find it hard to beleive what I hear… But even if we throw away the second one – as it’s merely an overheard discussion –, the letter alone contains enough evidence against the House van der Hayle. ‘Corrupt and tiny governments with sickening rulers…’, oh, by the ugly name of Judas rotting in the Hell, this is more than enraging…”

He shook his head.

“Simply unbelievable. I suppose the original letter with the seal of the Duke of Brabant is in Dijon, and the seal may be examined by experts… am I right, signore Laurendeau? … Anyway, I would be glad to hear the interpretation of the representative of Brabant about his duke’s actions… a simply denying is not enough.
And once again: Piemonte has every reason to look upon Lotharingia with suspect, or, I dare to say, with disfavor. The House of Savoy was crippled by Burgundy and this will be never forgotten, nor forgiven, but we can do nothing, as the sins of that Amadée were just as disgusting as the sins of the duke of Brabant now… well, a little less disgusting, but that’s not an issue now. And also, more recently, when my duke opposed the heretic rebels, Lotharingia was against us. So I am not an objective observer in this situation, noble lords, as a few kind words can’t make these offenses forgotten… but still, noble lords, even as a man with… khm… unfriendly emotions toward Lotharingia, I say: they are right.”

Correano sighed.

“I truly hate to say this, but they are right. The bad thing with Lotharingia is that they are always right…” Correano scratched the top of his head and looked up. “Brabant, and of course Luxemburg, need to present a VERY convincing evidence of their clearance… Until that, Piemonte supports Burgundy.”

He nodded toward de Laurendeau, bowed toward the Imperial throne, then sat back, and began scratching the bald spot on the top of his head again…

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau calmly answers the representative of Piemonte.

"Yes, the letter, and its seal, is at everyone's disposal in Dijon. I invite your heraldic and seal experts to come to the castle indeed.

The representative of Brabant has already declared in front of this most noble assembly that it does not respect the ruling of Lotharingia and that it has plotted for secession. "

 

[Longinus]

Originally posted by BusterBunny
De Laurendeau answers the Bohemian representative.

"Yes, we do hope that pressure will solve the issue. But as we speak, the ambassador of Brabant in Luxembourg has presented an alliance proposal to the House of Luxembourg. The duchy of Brabant HAVE plotted against Gelre, and I have only this letter with the van der Hayle seal to prove it. But their plot against Burgundy is real, as the scribe, and even the King of France himself, have confirmed.

Yet many princes seems to be looking for the Lotharingian demise. We have no intention on warring on them.

We have no intention of supporting them in the futre either. At the end of this, the province of Brabant will still be under vassalage of Burgundy. The House van der Hayle will be long gone.

The only question is who wants to be remembered as encouraging a plot against the House of Berry."

Landgraf von Blumentritt smiles coldly to viscomte.

"The point is herr de Laurendeau that you never actually supported any Imperial Prince, what is worse, your Emperor.

Instead House de Berry and Burgundy challenged the Imperial Authority, promised a lot but did nothing at all.

His Majesty has good memory, he recalls noble Marie de Berry with love but defintely not the current moves of the House de Berry.

Nonetheless, as I said before, everthing must be colsely investigated. Last two decades of Burgundian raise, up to the moment today, and most disturbing news from Barbant."

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau, in somekind of a "who is smiling the nicest" contest, answers.

"Lord von Blumentritt will probably also remembers the REASONS for that, which are documented by the scribe of this very Diet. I remember the House of Berry supporting the House of Greif against Poland and Lithuania, in a war that has seen the acquisition of some provinces to the House of Greif. At that, I guess, the House of Greif is not so different than the House of Berry.

We have, at times, also supported Luxembourg, Bohemia after being dismantled, Bavaria, Austria, Pommern, Savoie, Gelre twice not counting the current situation, and Friesland under a previous ruler.

We can, obviously, talk about this fascinating subject for hours. As it has been said, a broken window takes time to repair, and when you have no tools to repair it, you better do something else than loose your time being innefficient. Or maybe I'm lost in the translation.

If your Lord, or His Most August Imperial Majesty, thinks it is beneficial to remind the Diet of the matters between the House of Greif and the House of Berry, in order to solve the situation, curiosity dictates that it should be done. Else, I am unsure of the goal attained by this."

He reads a piece of paper... and continues.

"Nor do I understand the alliance between Brabant and Friesland that has just been signed. So much I do not understand. Maybe it's just me. "

 

[unmerged(9310)]

"Indeed, the Duchy of Brabant was not invaded nor attacked by Burgundian soldiers, yet still the mouth of the Lotharingian Kingdom forever eats our peoples and their lands, the belly of the Lotharingian beast grows fat by... feeding off of the virtuous princes and lands of the Holy Roman Empire, and the possesions under the most August Emperor's protection themselves! How can you good princes stand by and say that Duke Adriaen, my master, was wrong in opposing the Burgundian domination of the western half of the Holy Roman Empire? Indeed, Count Rozmberk, do you not reside comfortably in the more easternparts of the empire? It seems not all the matters of the empire matter to it's certain governing representatives.

... As for our alliances, it is the the protection of the Duchy and the true and only ruling family of Brabant, the haus van der Hayle." Pieter said confidently, looking to the Burgundian.

 

[unmerged(9310)]

Pieter quickly spoke again, "As for the current issue of Burgundy and Brabant, I suggest to the Imperial Representative as well as the entire Reichstag that a peace promise is called and kept between Lotharingia and Brabant, ensuring no unwise or unjust acts of violence commence while this matter is decided by the Imperial Diet and by his eminence the Holy Roman Emperor."

 

[BusterBunny]

De LAurendeau speaks again.

"Since the relation of vassal to overlord is protected in the laws of the Diet, and that Lotharingia reserves the same rights, duties and priviledges to Brabant that any vassal nations has in this Empire, no laws is breach, and no actions from the Diet is intended. The right of Lotharingia over Brabant has been secured a long time ago, and only the House of Berry has a word to say on how we settle this affair, since it is an internal matter. I throuroughly enjoy the discussions around here, and offer to answer any question this noble assembly has. But in the end, it is our duty alone to manage our vassals, and we do not intend to "settle anything". The decision has been taken by the royal House of Berry, and the Lords of Le Directoire, some of which are noble flemish houses.

The vassal-overlord bond is one of the most sacred bond this Empire knows of. As we are subject of a Pommeranian Emperor, you are subject of a French queen. You might disagree with us, and we will be as lenient as the Emperor has been with us. But should you want to secession from the Empire, and I will have to execute the same threat that was pending over our head when the former duchy of Burgundy asked to seceede also from the Empire.

The questions in front of the House van der Hayle still stand:

1- Your are also the vassal of a Pommeranian Emperor. Do you look into seceeding from the Empire?

2- Tell me of the lands conquered, of the expansion of the House of Berry in the Empire... which country did we conquer? Which lands did we attack? Which expension? "

 

[unmerged(13005)]

"Indeed, you speak well, representative of "Lotharingia". But tell us this; how is it that Brugundy came to control mostly all the Lowlands, although, in our express opinion, it has no true claim to this land? Every day we Frisians wake with the feeling of a foreign yoke spread over our cousins slowly spreading over us. This issue is much older than that which has happened over the past two decades, and we would be fools to limit ourselves to that small slice of your very long history.

I would also like to note that I find your suggestion that Brabant wishes to seperate from the Empire absurd. Ineed, it is Burgundy who has been constantly disloyal to The Empire in the past, not the tiny state of Brabant who would be defenseless if it were not for The Emperor's protection.

Furthermore, I would like to confirm that Friesland and Brabant are now formaly alligned, and we will spring to our cousins' aid in case of war. Yes Burgundian, Brabant is your master's vassal. You seem however to miss the obvious question: by what right? We feel that despite your so called "claims" to Brabant, that state deserves its sovereignty if it wishes it, just like any other realm in The Empire. We are a confederation-under-Emperor, and as such should give all our many peoples free and just government, so that they may love their Empire and better work towards its growth. The situation that has arisen is indeed an unhealthy one. It strikes as a sickness toward the very heart of our Empire. A ruler so wise and powerful as that of Burgundy should surely have enough wisdom not to insist on ruling a people which do not want to be ruled by her. If not for the good of that people, at least in the name of the continued unity of this assembly. I pray you consider my words."

 

[unmerged(9310)]

Ah, but we Flemish are not so subjigated...

Pieter vanden Leene rose from his seat and spoke aloud, so all in the Reichstag could hear. Indeed, he was frank in his speech.

"Lords and ladies of the Reichstag, the Burgundian Queen insists that her word overrules that of the Reichstag and the Imperial authority, even in Imperial lands... as my land of Brabant is indeed part of the Holy Roman Empire. She says the matter is to be dealt with by only Burgundian authority; is this just? How can she say her vengeful rule extends so far as to in lands under the Empire seeking Imperial aid?"

He turned to LAurendeau, "The relation of the vassal to the overlord is to provide tribute in exchange for wise rule and protection. Yet you plan the opposite for the people of Wallonia, you threaten to violently invade our lands and attack our noblility, and the Duke's family itself is to be replace! This is no overlord protection.... and therefore, the Duchy of Brabant shall perhaps cease all it's annual tribute payment to the Kingdom of Lotharingia, since it is not fufilling it's end of the vassal - overlord relationship.

The van der Hayle family is the true ruling family of Brabant, and no Burgundian Queen has ever had the right to say other wise."

Pieter sat down.

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau answers first the Frisian.

"Not so long ago, we were allies with the Frisians. Things change, I guess, as suddenly new alliances are found, and old one flunk. What changed since then? Nothing, just that suddenly the duchy of Braban says "Bark", and that is what you do.

In any ways, the right that you do not recognise is unfortunately recognised by the Empire, by the Church, and by the Imperial realms, the different Houses inside and outside of the Empire. This right is the right of succession, or hereditary rights. They are diverse in nature. The one in France is in different than the one in England, and this lead to the hundred years war. The one in Burgundy, at the moment, was approved by the Church and by the Emperor.

Let's look at the line of the House of Brabant, shall we?

So, we have Jean III of Brabant, past duke. He has only one daughter, Margerite de Brabant. She marries Louis de Male, and they have again only one daughter, Margerite II de Male.

Up to know, you're following, yes?

So, Margerite II de Male, duchesse de Brabant, marries Philippe II de Bourgogne. They have three children, and the heir receives the title Duke of Brabant, amongst other things. That would be Jean de Bourgogne. Jean de Bourgogne will transfer the title to his heir, Philippe le Bon.

At the death of the Houses of Brabant, Philipe le Bon is the only one to have a claim on the title Duke de Brabant. Thus, when the line of Burgundy also dies off, the title is transfered to the House of Berry, with all the claims of the previous Dukes of Burgundy.

Thus, the inheritance rights gives the House of Berry the title "Duke of Brabant".

I am not sure why we are explaining this, however. The marriage of the Valois line and the Brabant line was done more than 70 years ago. And NOW you all bring this up. The acquisition of Brabant was not a conquest, it was the result of a mariage.

Now, we have, OURSELVES, established a House at the head of Brabant. The House van der Hayle has unfortunately betrayed us. I've never seen people in the Diet intervening in matters concerning vassals and overlord, and I don't see why today would be different. We have made a bad decision in putting a traitor at the head of Brabant, and we will repair this one way or the other. If Friesland gets in the way, it will get crushed. We've battled England. We've battled France even. Do you think we are affraid of Friesland? Not really.

Of course Friesland has nothing to worry about. We will not come after Friesland, as this is not the goal of this intervention. So drop in if you like, my guess is that won't make a difference in the long run to my armies."

De Laurendeau then turns to answer the representative of Brabant.

"Since 70 years, the Empire has recognised the right of Burgundy, and then Lotharingia, to rule over Brabant. As it states in the laws of the Empire, the Diet does not intervene in internal matters of a nation, and as such, we have no intention of asking everyone's advice on the current issue. Brabant has broken its vassalage, and we will enforce the decision of the Diet that was made a long time ago.

We offer the people of Brabant our protection. Unfortunately, you seem to have a difficulty making a difference between a House and a country. The HOUSE of van der Hayle has decided to break vassalage and betray Burgundy. This decision asks for the removal of the House of van der Hayle. If you decide to force people to fight, it is your choice. But in the end, we will win. So let them be slaughter. It is the decision of the House of van der Hayle to throw them in the slaughter. We simply ask for the removal of your House.

The House van der Hayle has no history in Brabant. Your own court even knows that and says it in the different books available on the subject. It was NEVER part of its line, and though you fake to be of royal Capet-Burgundian blood, a clear lie as there was never a Capet kingdom of Burgundy, your House means nothing. It was put in place by us, and will be removed by us.

Thus goes vassalship, to everyone's understanding.

Except yours, apparently."

He turns to the Diet.

"People, we have matter much more important than this to attend to. The Kingdom of Bohemia and the Kingdom of Lotharingia has the situation under control, and will resolve this in due time. Meanwhile, I invite anyone who has questions to ask them. My questions to the Brabant representative are left unanswered at this time. I dare say that they are still opened, if someone wants to take a shot at them:

1- Your are also the vassal of a Pommeranian Emperor. Do you look into seceeding from the Empire?

2- Tell me of the lands conquered, of the expansion of the House of Berry in the Empire... which country did we conquer? Which lands did we attack? Which expension?

Maybe someone wants to try. It seems the questions are mind buggling to some. Accusations... words fly high."

 

[unmerged(9310)]

Pieter turned to the Burgundian, disgusted with his comments. The many men of the Reichstag listened as he continued, "Indeed, your disrespect for the rule of this grand imperial diet within the holy empire is disturbing, and indeed the haus van der Hayle no longer recognizes Burgundian sovereignty over the lands of Brabant nor it's people. Your master offers my people no protection, only offering violence and hostile actions against our dear ruling family.

And thank God the time has come when your vile French royal line has no more place in Brabant, as it is only a family which craves power by slowing slithering it's tentacles into the rich and proud lands of the Low Countries and into the Holy Roman Empire.

This is no longer an issue of the Queen of Burgundy pawning princes of the empire off as she wishes. Brabant no longer prefers Burgundian proteciton, and the people of Brabant, the Guildheads, who I am sure you know have domination of most of the industry and much of the governance of the cities of the land also support Duke Adriaen and the van der Hayle family. Burgundian warlike rule is not what the people of Brabant ever want. Your master is a Queen because of the rule of the Emperor, defying him I think would be most unwise. Brabant and it's people no longer want a place in this most illicit kingdom of Lotharingia, which should exist in name for the histories back in the days of Charles the Great, not in these times.

Do you, Prinzes and good lords and representatives of the reichstag, want half of this most Holy Roman Empire to be under the domination of a Burgundian Queen, and one that proposes to defy the God given, just, and Holy rule of this Imperial Diet and the Emperor himself?"

Pieter turned back to the Burgundian, "Your masters pleas to the Duke of Luxembourg are useless. The nobility of the Low Countries has collecitvely decided that it is opposed to further Burgundian expansion into our part of the Holy Roman Empire, as is our rightful duty. Indeed, we are all vassals of a Pommeranian Emperor, yet Brabant would never look to seceed from the Holy and God given Empire of Humanity. It is a empire we all, in witness of God, recignize... Lotharingia, however, is a fantasy of the old day."

This caused a small uproar of argument among nobles and delegates from the Rhineland, Wallonia and the Low Countries.

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau speaks up.

"Well, it is settled. The Duchy of Brabant doesn't recognise the rule of the Diet, the tacit decision made by the Diet more than 70 years ago.

As such we have no more choices. I hereby declare war on the duchy of Brabant before the end of the coming month. We do not expect any help, except for the diplomatic support of Bohemia to prevent a similar fate to Luxembourg. In 3 month's time, our armies will march on Brussel.

I remain, as usual, ready to answer any questions from this Diet. I invite to pass on more serious matter. The matter of Brabant will be settled after winter, when our forces will be able to move more freely."

He bows and awaits other questions. He adds:

"Oh, yes, I've reminded that my questions are left unanswered, as always."