- ARCHIVE - Imperial Diet of the Holy Roman Empire

[Karamazov]

von Spanger croaks from his seat:

Good delegates, so easy it is to cry foul play. Austria has more land than us, so surely they are in the wrong.

I however, do not agree with this line of thought. Bohemia has not shown any signs of faith or loyalty to our empire, and that country has caused more problems than all other Imperial nations combined.

Let the Bohemians be punished! How can we keep order if we so quickly ignore crimes against the Empire? Surely, good Emperor, Bohemia should be occupied until those lands can prove themselves worthy of sovreignty. All they do is whine and complain, but they started a mess, and the Austrians are simply cleaning it up, something which many here have ignored until this point.

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau speaks up:

"Monsieur Von Spanger, I propose the following.

1- The Duchy of Bohemia is created instead of the Kingdom.
2- Bohemia becomes the titulary vassal of Austria until such a time where the Emperor and the Pope will believe that Bohemia has paid its due to the Empire.

We need to put titulary somewhere for I fear that if Bohemia becomes a real vassal of Austria, the influx of money tranfered will create havoc in the Austrian economy."

 

[LUDWIG]

The Austrian turns to face the Hessen delegation and rising to his feet a few groans can be heard.
Instead of a speech the Austrian merely gives an impressive military salute to the men of Hessen before sitting down silently.

 

[unmerged(8054)]

Ullrich Dyck speaks:

"I second the words of de Laurendeau.
I frankly do not care whether Bohemia is a kingdom or a duchy, but I do care that Bohemia is an independent nation.
Placing Bohemia, with her history of open rebellion, under supervision of an Imperial nation, sounds like a good idea to me.
Especially if said vasalship is made temporary, to be rethought after a certain period of time has passed.

As said earlier, the main issue with Austria annexing Bohemia is not that it happened, but that Austria conquered Bohemia under false premises, with the help of nations, like Bremen, who would never fight for Austrias territorial gains, but who would fight to defeat heretics who tried to leave the Empire.
Has Austria defeated Bohemia by herself, and, might I add, faced the armies of the Northern Alliance alone, I would she had won the land of Bohemia, and I would still call her a greedy warmonger.
But when Austria, with the aid of among others the League von Nurnberg, defeats Hussite heretics, and then proceed to claim all lands once of Bohemia, I will call her a greedy manipularing powermonger.

As I said earlier, I do however second de Laurendeaus words, shoul the Emperor agree to them."

 

[Schlieffen]

Victor rises, addressing the complaints and points of the Austrian General.
First of all, General, Lord Georg can have all the grounds in the world for executing the Bohemian delegation - he does not have the rank. I will not allow every Count, Duke, and commoner to execute the delegation of any relm: When in this Diet, the safety of every delegate is guarenteed by me and the Empire itself, and Lord Georg was out of line to think his authority, whether in his actual position or as the "King" of Bohemia, allows him to execute men under my protection without consulting anyone, especialy me or my Steward.
I also add that the members of the delegation that was executed were not Hussites, but representitives of the Christian nobles of Bohemia, rendering at the very least two of three of the reasons you gave invalid.

As for annexations of Imperial lands being uncommon, that was under Albert's reign, not my own. I also add that Loraine is neither an Elector or a Kingdom, something that Bohemia has the privilege of being.

As for your "nearly single handed" ending of the Hussite rebelion, Bavaria, Bremen, Luxembourg, Brandenburg, Hessen, and several other states participated in ending the reign of the Hussites. To say that Austria was the only participant or, for that matter, the major one is nothing more than a complete falsehood - many states had their entire militaries destroyed as a result of that campaign and the Hungarian rebelion, and I will not allow Austria to say that you were practicaly the only participant.

And concerning the Emperor "profitted greatly from the excellent efforts of the Austrians", perhaps you should consider that the Emperor was the Archduke of Austria. Your complaints about your Archduke being sent away, the Emperor you served so loyaly humiliating you and publically rebuking you for whatever minor matter has irked him that day, as you put it, should be brought up with your own Archduke, as I have been in this throne for less than a year. I will not be held responsible for decisions made by your Archduke before I came to power, especialy when you attempt to place the blame for his actions upon me.

Austria's war was against the Hussites and, unless you or your nation wish to say otherwise concerning the reason for war, I hope that you will be silent during the next few weeks while I attempt to solve this mess that your Archduke has created. The annexation of the Electorstate of Bohemia was unlawful because of the reason for war, and that is final. If you wish to war against Hussites, take land from the Hussites, not their Kingdom.


He then breathes deeply and addresses the Diet.
Representitives of the Electorstates of the Empire, I wish for your respective votes for the following issue: Should Bohemia's status as a Kingdom be removed based on their previous rebelious activity. Their status as an Elector will remain unchanged, regardless of the result.

 

[Sharur]

Lord Bendtsen grunts in the back.

"This is exactly what I proposed weeks ago...", he thinks to himself. "Bohemia no longer a Kingdom, and a vassal of Austria. I swear, this Diet moves slower than molasses in January... or perhaps it's just that the opinions of a foreigner are not respected..."

Bendtsen's thoughts are interrupted by a messenger who delivers a short note to him.

"Well, well, well. I didn't think His Majesty was so inventive." Bendtsen mused silently over the note. "But surely the Emperor would not approve... Ah, but then again, he did not act against the Federation..."

 

[Darth Tracid]

The luxembourgian delegate risis slowly, and stares at the emperor directly, without lowering his eyes as his stare meets the emperors eyes.
"Emperor, delegates of the empire.
The situation in Bohemia is very similar to that in Hungary. It is a rebelous state, and both have proofen more than one time that they are unable to govern themselves. Luxembourg has first claims of both lands, and we have pressed them with Hungary. We do so not with the lands of bohemia, because we believe austria has every right to annex it. Even if it is lawfully ours, we are willing to stand down to let austria have their share. Because we believe that austria is a noble state, a state of great men and great honour.
And surely one of the noblest from austria is the former emperor. Yes, he has made mistakes. But for King Sigismund of Luxembourg he was a great friend, and a mentor. Luxembourg owes much to this man, as does the empire as a whole. It was he that united it again, crushed rebellions in Hungary and Bohemia, and showed the strenght of the empire as a whole. I do not say he was perfect. But is anybody perfect? I say no.
And therefore, my emperor, with all due respect, I must insist that your statements concerning this most noble austrian are reconsidered, as they are unjustified and wrong. He left the empire to you as a whole, and stronger than it was before his reign. Do not dishonour this great man for your own sake.

As for Bohemia, the matter is clear to us. Duchess Elisabeth of Luxembourg and with that the whole house of Luxembourg and the kingdom of Hungary under it's rule fully and unconditionally support austrias annexion, and we view it as fully fustified and legal."

 

[unmerged(8054)]

Ullrich Dyck rises, bows to the Steward and the Emperor, and speaks.

"Noble delegates, Your Imperial Majesty.

Bohemia and Hungary are not similar, and the difference, I believe, is the very reason Austria wants the Bohemian crown so badly; Bohemia is an elector-state of the Holy Roman Empire, Hungary was not.
In addition to this, Hungary rebelled led by their own king Urseolo, while the Hussite rebels of Bohemia first killed their lawfull king and usurped control with the land.
In both cases the Empire intervened to crush rebels, and in both cases it was Bremens intention to restore the rightfull rulers.
In Hungary that is Duchess Elisabeth of Luxembourg, and thus noone can object when she choses to annex the nation rather than appoint a new king.

However, in Bohemia the rightfull ruler is the heir of the now dead Bohemian king, and since it has proced impossibly to find a such, custom dictates a new King is chosen as the nobles of the land see fit.

However, it would only seem fair that Bohemia was recreated as a duchy rather than a kingdom, as the Emperor is de facto creating a new Imperial states, hopefully free from all corruption and heresy.
Also, should the Bohemians once again prove unable to rule their land in accordance to the will of God and the Emperor, then would be the time to talk of annexations.
I do realice Bremen is not an electorstate, consider this as advice for those who are."

 

[unmerged(3110)]

Sir Rowan Andrews stirs at the back of the diet. He wonders if the permition to speak given by the Burgundian delegate a while ago aplied now.

He clears his throught hoping he'd be invited again.

 

[HJ Tulp]

Hendrik van Egmondt rises to speak.
"Honoured lords of the Imperial Diet, the representative has made a interesting proposal" thinking to himself "for once". Then speaking to the Diet again. "But who will rule Bohemia. They will be a Austrian vassal. But will the Archduke of Austria be king of Bohemia? In the matter of the Reichskamergericht, we need it fast because we have now two men who need to be trailed : lord Georg and Urseolo."

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau stands up:

"Burgundy recognises Sir Rowan Andrews to speak in the name of England."

 

[unmerged(3110)]

Sir Rowan Andrews bows deeply to Delegate De Laurendeau. His moustauch twitching and his new leather underalls squeaking. His emameled armour under his white surcoat gleaming. He speaks.

"Thank you my lord."

"Noble delegates i bring good news and would seek to offer a "Possible" solution to your Bohemian crisis"

He looks to the Emperor.

"Saa!.. The good news is that all your prerequisits have been met in the mission for peace between the Federation and France. Further to this the Holy Father has deemed the Armastice proposal as worthy and will sign in ratification, the agreement, when the French Nobles sign."

"So all is well there. You are formaly asked that as your demands were met that you also consider signing the document in ratification as was done with the treaty of Arras."

"It is not nessasary but we would be honoured."

"Further more... upon this Bohemian issue."

"Personaly i would like to know the Livonian standpoint on this matter. Also might i suggest you consider a compromise and alow Austria to follow a middle path."

"Something like there annexing the majority of this Heretical hostile land and He allowing the one province of Bohemia to remain soverign yet as a vassal."

"This way the claws are removed from the Heretics and all good Bohemians can live in peace in Bohemia under the guiding hand of their "benefactors"."

"However... I know not Livonian opinion and as you know the Policies of England are tied to their northen cousins to some small degree. This is only my personal observations."

"I know nothing of the murders or the electoral politics involved. Just that Both could be satified on a basic level maybe"

 

[Karamazov]

von Spangler attempts a smile, his wrinkled face however hides most expressions:

Good Emperor, the real issue here is the fact that Austria has the right to annex Bohemia, whether it pleases some or not. Austria is a honorable nation, and why should such a loyal member of the Empire be treated so?

I disagree that their actions are based on gaining an elector. That title does not impress me, and certainly the money spent on the campaign is not worth it for a vote alone.

If the Bohemian nobles are so distraught, maybe they should attempt to talk to the Austrians directly, instead of whining to this Diet.

 

[unmerged(8915)]

A dirty parchment is found by a guard close to the diet. On it is scribbled:

"Noble Lords of the Empire, our Austrian captors have informed us of the events taking place. So be it, we will rather be Austria's subjects than a mere duchy like Burgundy!

Legally and according to ancient customs, Austria can control or even militarily annex the lands of Bohemia, but only WE can appoint a rightful King of Bohemia and Elector. The usurpation of the honorable title of elector is illegal.

Truly the world is turning upside down!"

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau speaks up:

"A mere duchy like Burgundy. Well, that's typical, isn't it. This last letter tells me that we would be better off if Bohemia was a duchy, and Austria be the overlord of Bohemia.

Of course, I would be willing to compromise. All Bohemian territories outside of the Empire could be called the Kingdom of Bohemia...

... oh, there is no Bohemian territories outside the Empire? Well, I guess this puts the final nail in the coffin...

After all, Bohemia and Burgundy were once kingdoms."

 

[Bagricula]

Doctor Konrad von Richter mutters to himself as he listens to the debate, shaking his head and occasionally scratching his beard. Finally, he rises to speak, his words slow and a little heavy; the whirlwind of events and the horrors of the plague obviously weigh on the man.

"Noble and august delegates of the Empire, much happens and much is left to the wayside. There are many grave and serious matters for this Reichstag to debate, and for our Emperor to act on. Firstly, I wish to announce to the Diet that the charter of the Reichskammergericht is almost complete, and only needs be copied by the scribes before being presented. Further it is the decision of his serene higness, the Count Palatine to appoint the heir of Johann II, Johann III to the post of Richter von Germania.

I commend the Federation and the Kingdom of France for negotiating a mutual peace that will hopefully end the war that has bloodied Gaullia for so long. I would endorse the British emissary's request for the Emperor's presences, were not matters internal to the Empire of such importance at the moment.

It is has for many years been the right of the conquerer to ruled the lands of the conquered. Much the same happened when the Duchy of Lorraine declared war about the Duchy of Burgundy not too many years ago. While I regret that the Burgundians chose to annex it, I nonetheless recognize that they had a strong claim and that they were the sole prosecutors and victors in the war. Further, if we examine the rebellion of Urseolo, we may find that the Ducal House of Luxembourg was the rightful and proper heirs and rulers of the Hungarian crown by blood. The War against the Hussite Heresy as far as I know was a far different matter. Was Bohemia the vassal of the Archduchy of Austria? How closely related is Lord Georg to the former King of Bohemia? Further, was Austria the sole prosecutor of the war agains the Hussites. From what I've heard there were many nations, especially in the former Liga von Nurnberg that fought in Bohemia. Do they not all receive a place at the negotiating table? Did not Bavaria and Genoa contribute mightily? I do not know the answers to these questions, august delegates, but I am sure some among you do. I seek the wisdom of the Diet, and believe that once these questions are answered the legitimacy of the Austrian claim to the Bohemian throne will be easy to resolve.

If however it is found that their claim is wanting, I think it would be unlawful to leave the deaths of Imperial sons unrewarded. A restored Bohemia should be in my opinion a vassal of Austria at least for the extent of the Holy Inquistion's investigation there, perhaps longer. The title of King-Elector is not and has never been a prize of war, and as the entire system of Electors was created by the Bulla Aurae, I would suggest following its procedure for reassigning Electors.

We should not however let this matter consume entirely the great minds of the Empire. Some matters have sadly fallen to the wayside, such as the claim of the Duchess of Burgundy to the Crown of Lotharingia. I would endorse the Duchess to journey to the Reichstag here in Frankfurt to be crowned by the Emperor, as he is the current possessor of said coronet.

I apologize for the extensive time I have consumed with my thoughts. God be willing, the next time I rise to speak will be to present the charter of the Reichskammergericht."

The Doctor bows to all the delegates and then returns to his seat.

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau speaks up:


"Good Doktor Von Richter, though I understand that Austria has no claim to the crown of Bohemia, I fear someone... elected by... peasants, wouldn't have a claim either. Maybe the Emperor should be the one choosing the next ruler of Bohemia, should he be a king or a duke."

 

[HJ Tulp]

Hendrik van Egmondt rises to speak.
"Don't only the noble's chooose the king in Bohemia?"

 

[BusterBunny]

De Laurendeau thinks for a few seconds and answers:

"Are there any nobles left in Bohemia? I mean, should we expect a king to be elected by... mayors? Barons?"

 

[HJ Tulp]

Hendrik van Egmondt rises to speak
"Baron's are noble's to, if i recall correctly."