- ARCHIVE - Imperial Diet of the Holy Roman Empire

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Sir Munsford rises to speak.

"Sir Rowan,
There is still a flaw in your Treaty. For it states that it will be created as the sovereign Duchy of Normandy. Yet this queen of Naples is claiming to be the Current Queen of Normandie as it is stated in the Court of Normandie:

Giovanna II

Her Grace, Giovanna Angevin the Second, rightful Queen of Naples, Campania, Beneveto, Caserta, Abruzzi,Chieti, L'Aquila, Pescara, Teramo, Molise, Campobasso, Isernia, Basilicata, Matera, Potenza, Salerno, Calabria, Cantanzaro, and Cosenza. Duchess of Apulia, Bari, Brindisi, Foggia, Lecce, and Taranto. Princess of Serbia. Rightful Countess of Provence, Nice, Marseilles, Toulon, Arles. Born in 1381, she was the sister and sucessor of her brother, Lancelot at his death in 1414. Her second husband, James of Bourbon attempted to sieze power in 1416, but was imprisoned. Current Queen of Normandie. Married to Duke Humphery of Brittany.

Last I checked good Sir,a Duchy did not allow you to assume the title of King or Queen over it. It is stated to be a Ducal Court show it shall have either a Duke or Duchess rule over it. As in the treaty it claims you to be the only Duke of Normandie that means you rule it. So you see the only way the Queen of Naples could be the Duchess of Normandie was if she was married to you, and I presume she is not? So your Treaty is still broken by your own hand."

Sir Munsford sits back down.

 

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At this point, Baron von Schwartzshloß returns to the Diet. He returns to the seat reserved for the Palatinate, where the young Franz is chewing a fingernail nervously and looking totally out of place amongst the arguing nobles around him. The Baron frowns at him, offers terse and not particularly heart-felt thanks to the younger man, then ushers him from the seat with a swift wave of a hand.

The Baron turns to address the Diet before he sits,

"Gentlemen, I humbly apologise for my absence. Count Josef detained me for some time at Heidelberg discussing our new position as advisor for internal security. Couple this with the terrible communication problems that have been plaguing the Rhineland of late and I've been having a devil of a time..."

He looks at the French and English ambassadors glowering at each other and frowns.

"Ah, ja, I imagine this furore is all about this new commonwealth business that has sprung up in the west. I am sure that Count Josef should wish me to make several comments about this... on his behalf, of course."

The Baron bows toward the Emperor and his Steward and takes his seat. He shifts his weight and settles into the now familiar and welcome comfort of the Diet chair as the young Franz behind him breathes a sigh of relief to have been taken out of the heat of the debate.

 

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The Count Adolf von Eppstein rises to speak.

"Certainly you do not think that, simply because of a movement of location, that the good Queen Giovanna is not still a Queen. It may be something of a legal trick, but the noble English delegate is quite correct. Giovanna is the Queen of Normandie, and the English for all posterity shall be the Duke.

It is good to see you again, Baron. I had thought you might never return. Tell Franz I am... proud... of him.

If you will excuse this digression, I think it horrid that the Danes would lecture us on etiquette before our very own Diet! If the French and English, and yes, the Aragonese, do show themselves more able to speak like the noblemen they are, the Emperor had ought rescind their right to address the court. Also, I think that they have been taking up far too much of our time with their words... whose Diet is this? If I may be so bold, I think we have heard enough on this topic from them, and all that is left is discussion amongst ourselves."

 

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The french ambassador stands up and looks around the diet and speaks
As you wish noble diet, we will let you discuss the matter without our interference, however as ambassador of France i'l remain here to answer any questions you might have, if i am allowed.

The ambassador bows and awaits the answer.

 

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Sir Munsford rises to speak.

"Count Adolf von Eppstein,
You misunderstood me. Yes I still recognize her as a Queen. The Queen of Naples not of Normandie. What I am trying to say is that Normandie is only a Duchy not a kingdom. Therefore her reign over it shall be one of a Duchess. For the Treaty states as I say again that Normandie shall be created as a Duchy not a Kingdom. So you see as titles go, She is the Queen of Naples and the Duchess of Normandie. Which lies the problem for since it is only a Duchy. The Good King of England by the treaty already claims rightfull rule over it as the one and only Duke. Therefore the only way she could rule as the Duchess would be if she took his hand in marriage."

Sir Munsford sits back down.

 

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The Baron nods and smiles at Count Adolf's words and also at the French delegate's regained composure. Sensing a momentary lull in the conversation he stands,

"My Lords, it is the opinion of this humble Baron that, despite it's pretentions to notions of democracy and devolved power and decision-making, the Federation is but an alliance by another name."

"Why create such a body at all, I suggest we ask ourselves? Is it, as His Excellency, the Ambassador for France suggests, a means to curb and control the power of France? Or is it, even, despite His Lordship Sir Rowan's adamant protestations to the contrary, a means to counter-balance the holy power and authority of the Empire?"

With these words, a nod of respect to the Ambassador for England,

"No disrespect, My Lord, but please understand that the security of the Empire is my, and Count Josef's primary concern."

 

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Leopoldo rises.

"Count Eppstein, what my friend is trying to say, is that Giovanna claiming to be Queen of Normandy, is flawed. My liege, Doge John II is Prince of Monaco. Would it be all right for him to call himself Prince of Genoa? No, and by the Queen claiming to be the Queen of Normandy, means that she is turning Normandy into a Kingdom, rather than a duchy."

 

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"My Lord Leopoldo," Baron von Schwartzshloß has barely returned to his seat when he rises again,

"Is this matter of semantics important to the Empire? Surely we would be better spending our time discussing the nature of the new Commonwealth and let those outside of the Empire involve themselves in this mess."

 

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Sir Rowan Andrews withdraws, with a bow to the Emperor, steward and delegates, to the seats reserved for observers.

He nods to Baron von Schwartzshloß as he passes, cautiously apraising him.

 

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Sir Munsford stands and speaks.

"Baron von Schwartzshloß,
This is a very important matter as it ties into the fact that the Treaty of Arras which was approved of by are Emperor has been broken by the English. Also this matter of semantics as you call it is important becuase a noble title is a very important thing. Something that is not to be taken lightly. It is what sets men apart and keeps all of Europe running, if anyone was alowed to assume any title that pleased them, people would no longer respect them, or any noble."

Sir Munsford sits down again.

 

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The Baron tips his head to one side and tilts the palm of his hands upwards to show he concedes the point. He stands,

"Herr Munsford, you are right... Ja, danke for bringing to my attention the role the Emperor played in the Treaty of Arras... quite right, quite right. I have spent too long away from the Diet at Heidelberg, I fear."

"Very well, since this is an Imperial matter, what measures should we take should Giovanna not renounce her pretentions to monarchy?"

The Baron turns to the unusally reticent Burgundian legate,

"My Lord, these external affairs are your department, are they not? What is your council?"

 

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Sir Munsford rises to speak.

"Baron von Schwartzshloß,
I thank you for agreeing with me on this. As for what matters we should take, I have already heard the course France would like to take against those who treat the Emperors orders so negliently. Plus even if the Queen of Naples steps down, the damage has already been done. For to appoint her the ruler in the first place breaks the treaty are Most August Emperor agreed upon. This also brings us to another point. Now we can see what this Federation really is about, a means for which england and her allies can grow strong and challenge the rule of France and the Emperor. For if the King of England takes no sorrow in breaking a treaty signed by the Emperor then he would take no sorrow in taking his place either."

Sir Munsford sits back down.

 

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Sir Rowan sits fuming. Knowing he can say nothing to refute the words he hears without invitation.

His outward face is one of total military composure as he stares at a spot on the wall on the other side of the room.

 

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Burgrave Erhard stands from the Steward's chair.

"Baron von Schwartzshloß, I am glad to see you return to the Diet. And I believe that you have truly seen the central issue with this matter of the English. Truthfully, I believe that the title of Giovanna d'Anjou matters little. It appears more a concern for the King of England, who may be willing to so grant away royal perogative, and for the Holy Father, upon whose recognition kingship rests. The very idea of a woman ruling is somewhat abhorrent to begin with.

"However, the purpose of this so-called federation is the crux of the matter. We have heard at great length the charges and counter-charges of the English and French envoys. If we truly believe that this alliance is created to threaten France, then the Empire must feel herself threatened.

"On another matter, the Elector of Brandenburg shall return as quickly as possible to the Diet. He is presently enroute to Munchen, where his eldest daughter is to be wed to the Duke of Bavaria. From there, he shall return to Wien."

 

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Sir Munsford rises to speak.

"Burgrave Erhard,
I must disagree on the fact that the Title means little. For My Duke feels that those who rule must keep some sort of honor so all can see that they are good and just rulers. I am most certain that all in here would take it very badly if my Duke began calling himself the King of Hannover. But the main reason this was all brought up is the fact that the Queen of Naples should not be ruling normandie at all. For the King of England is supposed to be the Duke there. This shows that as I have said before the King Broke a Treaty that was signed by our Emperor. I feel that any time someone so shows disrespect for are August Highness that it should be brought foward and dealt with. I also find it amusing that England would talk of France so disrespecting this treaty by trying to claim land again, when they themselves broke it. This also brings me to state that this action shows the true intent of the Federation. It is a means by which England can make sure her and her allies can remain secure, when all realize they have no respect for the Empire or the Emperor. I say this federation should be disbanded and the Treaty of Arras declared void. If England wishes to show her respect to the Empire and Emperor and help us, then she can come here and work beside us not against us."

Sir Munsford sits back down.

 

[AllonEU]

Leonard Fourner stands and speaks

Other external matters have taken my attention away from the Empire for a while, though I do have a good grasp of what is going on in England. England has created an empire of her own. I see the empire as one thing. A device to give the King of England, more power. King John has shamed the title of King and it is a travesty that such a power-crazen man would follow such good monarchies as King Henry and King Thomas. England cares little for anyone, but itself. This was proven when they put a very dangerous leader at the throne of Normandy, even though Burgundy and Genoa both requested King John not to. Now they have made some bold steps and I can tell you their target: France. England would like nothing better than to swallow France whole and gain that much more power. Then when they are stonger than the Empire, they shall strike the Empire. King John is not to be trusted in any way and I have faith in His Holiness to deny the request by England for his approval of their new so-called empire. We all know that there is only own true Empire in Europe. That is Charlemenge's Empire. The Holy Roman Empire...

 

[Schlieffen]

*A Bishop walks into the chaimbers of the Diet. He is very tall and has a look of anger mixed with uncaring on his face; the type of person you would expect to see in military uniform instead of clerical garments. He walks up to the leader of the Diet (OOC: in this case I would suppose it would be the Emperor himself since we don't have the seperate parts for the Electors, landowners etc.) and states the following:

Greatings Römischer Kaiser. I am Friedrich von Nathusius, a Bishop from the holy city of Cologne, and I have come to represent the ArchBishop of Cologne in the Imperial Diet as the ArchBishop himself has other matters to currently attend to. I hope that none of the other members will object to this...

 

[Schlieffen]

Immediatly after the representitive from Burgundy sits, Bishop von Nathusius stands.

Although I wouldn't exactly put England's position quite that way, Herr Fourner does have a point. England's power is held away from the Empire only by France which is currently in no shape to fight England and her vassals by herself. If the Empire does not act now in at least restricting in some way England's territorial size, the fate of the Reich may be sealed.

 

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A woman entered the diet.

"Your Imperial Majesty,

I am Jeanne d'Acoudie..I have been sent by Her Majesty, Giovanna the Second of Naples and Normandie. I humblly request permission to speak before the delegates in the stead of Giovanna the Second.."

 

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Burgrave Erhard rises from the Steward's chair.

"Herr Munsford, I understand your point. My point is that the title is not the central issue here. The central issue is the purpose of this alliance being formed."

Turning to the newly arrive legate for Koln,

"Herr Bishop, we welcome you and your counsel."

Frowning toward the woman who has just entered the chamber,

"Madame, it is certainly not the habit of this body to entertain official converse with women. You may find that your gender reduces the weight of your words before us, but you may speak."

Still frowning, the Burgrave returns to the Steward's chair.