Aragon should have expansion or exploration as a historical idea

[TheDarkMaster]

With it now possible for Aragon to draw trade to itself from the colonies, it should have either exploration or expansion as a historical idea in either the second or third slot. The original expedition that discovered the new world was originally a jointly funded effort by Castile and Aragon after all. It makes perfect sense for them to be colonizers as well. Plus, this way Spanish colonization efforts won't suddenly stop for a period of time if Aragon managed to get a PU over Castile and is the one that forms Spain.

 

[MagnusDux]

i think that historical ideas are chosen to try to replicate what happened historically, as aragon never tried to colonize the ai never chooses those ideas

 

[TheDarkMaster]

i think that historical ideas are chosen to try to replicate what happened historically, as aragon never tried to colonize the ai never chooses those ideas

Aragon was a part of Spain after 1516 historically, they never had a chance to colonize. It seems very unlikely that if they hadn't merged with Castile they would not have had made their own colonies.

 

[Itchel]

I agree, 4rth idea.

 

[MagnusDux]

Aragon was a part of Spain after 1516 historically, they never had a chance to colonize. It seems very unlikely that if they hadn't merged with Castile they would not have had made their own colonies.

Aragon was always more focused in expanding in the mediterranean, they had territories in italy and even in greece, i searched the wikipedia and didn't find any situation with aragonese or catalan settling or exploring the new world, and aragon didn't even have a coast in the atlantic. But you may be right, we will never know what would have happened if aragon had remained independent.

 

[Sagif]

In my Aragonese gameplay I have no use for any exploration or expansion ideas...

I know that it all depends on how you want to play, if you want to be an European powerhouse, or a Colonial Overlord, but still, Aragon has no History in the colonies, it works better as a merchant/trade powerhouse on the Mediterranean, especially thanks to the PU over Naples.

Right now Im in early 1700 and I own Iberia, all the Balkans from Constantinople to the borders of Wien, modern-day Turkey, almost all of Italy, a bit in Northen Africa and half of France, and a massive amount of trade ships, since I used the Aragonese Ideas and Traditions along side as Trade ideas...

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Now imagine that same situation, except that you're playing as a new world nation, wondering when Portugal and Castile are going to show up so that you can reform your religion and then Westernize. Besides, expansion is a great idea pick to boost trade strategies.

 

[Hipster_on_Ice]

Aragon is meant to be a Mediterranean power. Their entire idea set is built around maximizing their trade power in the Genoa node, and making sure their navy controls all of the inland seas around them. They don't have to colonize, none of the Italians in the Genoa node do.

 

[Sagif]

I only played as a New World nation once, with Mapuche, I believe. I picked Exploration as first idea group and rush-westernized... In the end, owned half or two-thirds of South America, with both Brazil and Colombia the other two nations in SA.

But playing as a New World nation if a little bit different from playing as Aragon, so I don't really see your point. Unless you are not replying my comment, or I'm just not getting it...

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I only played as a New World nation once, with Mapuche, I believe. I picked Exploration as first idea group and rush-westernized... In the end, owned half or two-thirds of South America, with both Brazil and Colombia the other two nations in SA.

But playing as a New World nation if a little bit different from playing as Aragon, so I don't really see your point. Unless you are not replying my comment, or I'm just not getting it...

The point was what if Aragon conquers all of Castile and Portugal, preventing them from colonizing? Then you don't have Europeans arriving to get a Western neighbor in order to reform your government.

 

[MagnusDux]

The point was what if Aragon conquers all of Castile and Portugal, preventing them from colonizing? Then you don't have Europeans arriving to get a Western neighbor in order to reform your government.

Even if aragon conquers portugal and castile before they started colonizing you still have england, france, brittany, dutch minors/netherlands. But that scenario makes prefect sense, some historians say that the reason china didn't colonize is because china was one country, with a centralized government, europe in the other hand, was divided in several kingdoms, so if one started to colonize the others would be left behind... just as portugal and castile started to colonize and eventually england and france had to join the race. If aragon somehow united spain it didn't necessarily had to colonize, colonization would just have been slower, with less participants.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

I'm unsure where I stand on this, The arguments for both side make sense, Where I see Aragon on the map is that they wouldnt be as interested in the new world as much as using their local trade to take what castile and portugal would bring back from their colonialism and become the merchants of the med, where I see them potentially becoming more colonial powers is that if the Iberian wedding fails to fire and they stay alive to the point where they become interested in Africa, India and the Spice islands.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

The order I've got them modded to is (Economic was swapped out and the order changed up a bit):
maritime_ideas
quantity_ideas
expansion_ideas
trade_ideas
religious_ideas
naval_ideas
innovativeness_ideas
offensive_ideas

They still are focused on the med with ideas based on them, but they can start colonizing around the same time that France does at a reduced rate. If you really want them to colonize without needing someone else to discover the provinces first, then you'd actually need to swap off maritime or trade ideas to fit it in.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

The order I've got them modded to is (Economic was swapped out and the order changed up a bit):
maritime_ideas
quantity_ideas
expansion_ideas
trade_ideas
religious_ideas
naval_ideas
innovativeness_ideas
offensive_ideas

They still are focused on the med with ideas based on them, but they can start colonizing around the same time that France does at a reduced rate. If you really want them to colonize without needing someone else to discover the provinces first, then you'd actually need to swap off maritime or trade ideas to fit it in.

Expansion seems sensible for them. especially for the expansion quantity policy for the extra colonist.

 

[Sagif]

The point was what if Aragon conquers all of Castile and Portugal, preventing them from colonizing? Then you don't have Europeans arriving to get a Western neighbor in order to reform your government.

That is hard, very hard do to.
Portugal will always fight Castille, and as soon as you get bigger, France WILL become hostile towards you. Fighting Portugal and Castille at the same time is extremely hard...

In my gameplay, Castille allied France, so I allied Portugal and Austria (with Burgundian inheritance).The only way to get Portugal fight Castille is this way, at least, in my gameplay...

Before 1500 Portugal usually has Cape Verde, a stepping stone towards America.