APC is OP. Why Support Vehicle is the best trait.

[-Strategist]

What do people say about "Support Vehicle"?​

"Beginner's Guide to Perks + Customizing Commanders" by Winslaya on reddit/youtube

Support Vehicle - This perk is good for mechanical-heavy builds, but useless otherwise. Way too expensive, and comes at the cost of upgrading your commander's ability to deal damage (which will be your strongest unit at the beginning, and for most of the game).

"Commander cration perk tier list?" by Kanjejou on Steam

Pilot APC: A for faction or secret tech with firearm/mecanical D for other. you have to build around the apc to make it usefull

"Legendary Weapons/Tier IV Weapons" by Garresh on these forums

The APC is absolutely nuts. AoW3 taught us the value of earlygame healing, ans that thing gets FOUR THREE heals every fight. And the accuracy buff extends to all allied units, even outside your stack. It's effectively a free accuracy mod to every allied unit on the battlefield. If you don't mind giving up your hero as a combat unit since it will be a buffbot, you can get around 136 cosmite worth of accuracy buff that doesn't use a mod slot in a 3 stack siege force.

I'm inclined to agree with one of these assessments...

What is an APC?​

APC adds +2 armor to hero and has 3 abilities:
1) APC Mounted Cannon
Does 16 damage
2) Drone Deployment Module: Repair
Heal 3 times, 30hp each
3) APC Tactical Scanner
+15% accuracy and +100 happiness for ALL your units on entire battlefield.

The APC is the best primary weapon, and is strong with all races in early, mid, and late game.

Note on Auto-Combat (AC)​

If you're planning to resolve Auto-Combat (AC), switch out the APC for another primary weapon. APC is terrible in AC, because the AI doesn't know how to use the Repair drone - the strongest ability early game.
Even in multiplayer, players have "combat cards" to have a limited number of controlled battles. The APC would help you crush difficult battles. So, unless you're planning to resolve all your battles in AC, the APC will still be the best choice.


Early Game
The Repair drone will let you take one tough battles by healing through enemy damage. And when damaged, you'll be able to heal your army by fighting a weak group.

Mid game
You can equip your new heroes with APC, and instantly make them into super healers. Level 1 heroes might need a fight to get Piloting.

Late game
When fights include multiple stacks and tier 3 units, the APC will still be the best primary weapon:
1) The +15% accuracy buff extends to all units
2) The tier 3 units will do comparable damage to that of your hero. The +15% accuracy to 15 units, that include tier 3, will add more than the equivalent of tier 4 damage.
3) Your hero will have access to powerful abilities, which should rival just using a primary attack.

I like suboptimal builds!
If you want to build a melee hero, you still can! Just purchase the melee weapon for 16e/8c! Difference is: after a tough battle where your hero got seriously damaged, you'll have the option to jump into the APC and heal up to full!

Vanguard will let you have 2 repair drones, letting you heal up to 180 hp every battle right from the start.

APC is OP. Plz nerf!

Did I convince you?

- Strategist

 

[Sandman25DCSSS]

It also combines nicely with commander perk which gives 1 AP after kill since you have so many abilities and attacks which cost 1 AP.

 

[Hamster1810]

That depends how you want to play the early game.
The APC is pretty good, I dont deny it, still it's limit to certain races and techs... not "all" as you stated.

For example, the Assembly, Amazones & Celestial guilt already have strong Healing factors early game (Assembly Heal Scouter, Amazones healer, Am. Heroes ability & Celestial many healing ability). So I'd rather have some high damage weapons.
Similar, the Dvar also have strong and steady Bunkers.
It seem that only the Vanguard & the Syndicate have good scale to an APC: Limit to early healing, based ranged units, very squishy... etc.

 

[Jean-Luc]

One hidden advantage of the APC is that you can still get your racial mounts but if you go for the Assault Vehicle trait you can't get the APC.

If you're spending 2 points on a piloting start might as well take the APC every time.

 

[m007kuzya]

I am fully agree with that APC is best choose as start perk But in my experience APC as vehicle only viable in early (10-12 turn). After that i get access to racial flying vehicle, that better in most cases.

So in middle - APC is worthless. But free piloting and vitality - is still good enough, to spend 2 characters points.

In late it MAY BE viable, but....

Late game
When fights include multiple stacks and tier 3 units, the APC will still be the best primary weapon:
1) The +15% accuracy buff extends to all units
2) The tier 3 units will do comparable damage to that of your hero. The +15% accuracy to 15 units, that include tier 3, will add more than the equivalent of tier 4 damage.
3) Your hero will have access to powerful abilities, which should rival just using a primary attack.

all this true, but this is only once per battle for 2 turns. So, if hero is at last level 6-7 - i prefer racial vehicle or good weapon.

 

[Asuzu]

Agree, APC is still OP even after nerfs.
Now, imagine Vanguard starting stack with APC and PUG.
You used your drone and accuracy buff? Hey, let's reset your cooldowns with a PUG and do it again!

 

[BloodyBattleBrain]

Hey, let's reset your cooldowns with a PUG and do it again!

And give up a slot in your army to do this.

Pros and cons.

I like the APC

 

[The Founder]

Early Game
The Repair drone will let you take one tough battles by healing through enemy damage. And when damaged, you'll be able to heal your army by fighting a weak group.

Mid game
You can equip your new heroes with APC, and instantly make them into super healers. Level 1 heroes might need a fight to get Piloting.

I prefer preemtive healing. By wich I mean: Kill the enemy so they can not deal damage in the first place!
This becomes clearest if there is a environmental effect, because killing the enemy fast limits the damage you take from the environment.
Particulary consider that the drone is extremly vulnerable to enemy fliers, anti-air attacks and environmental damage itself - so your healing could be dead after 0-1 heals, making it a huge waste of actions.

Reducing your hero to a heal and buff-bot seems like a huge waste of killing potential. I prefer to have 1 dedicated supprot unit per army for healing (both active and recovery passive). Anything more is a waste of damage output.
Only Vanguard Heroes wich seem to have a exceptional amount of active combat support skills would fit for me - but then I avoid overloading on active combat support skills in the first place.

It also combines nicely with commander perk which gives 1 AP after kill since you have so many abilities and attacks which cost 1 AP.

Absolutely. A single action non-repeating attack mixes perfectly with moving in close, melee overwatch, "leave one point" skills and Ruthless Killer.

My rule of thumb is that 1 Single Action attack is slightly below 2 repeating attacks in power. It is almost a pity that so many Dvar melee attacks push the enemies back, they would be ideal for a Overwatch hit...

 

[Ethorin]

...Eh. Problem with the APC is that most of the factions that want it(due to lacking early healing) also have the "my dudes die in one round if they take damage at all" problem.

Like, okay, sometimes my Vanguard Troopers will survive a round because the enemy couldn't get two people to hit them at the same time, but normally if my Troopers take damage at all they die.

 

[The Founder]

...Eh. Problem with the APC is that most of the factions that want it(due to lacking early healing) also have the "my dudes die in one round if they take damage at all" problem.

Like, okay, sometimes my Vanguard Troopers will survive a round because the enemy couldn't get two people to hit them at the same time, but normally if my Troopers take damage at all they die.

That honestly sounds more like you are getting them killed.
With Vanguard Troopers or Syndicate Indentured, you work yourself from cover to cover, using 1-2 remaining AP on overwatch or defense mode. Until you actually can start reliably hurting the other guy.

If the enemy attacks you from outside Overwatch range (weapon Range -1) or from cover inside overwatch, they have to contend with distance and your cover.
If the enemy is a melee, he should have to walk through your overwatch and spend 1-2 AP just getting to you, limiting how much damage any repeating attacks can do and making them take damage.
If the enemy has melees that can jump past overwatch, make sure units cover each other with overwatch - the enemy may be able to jump past the targets overwatch, but the attacks still will trigger overwatch
Melee units with many skitter stacks from previous movement or in full cover, are best covered in overwatch. The second they move, they have 0 stacks of skitter and are prime targets.

 

[Ethorin]

With Vanguard Troopers or Syndicate Indentured, you work yourself from cover to cover, using 1-2 remaining AP on overwatch or defense mode. Until you actually can start reliably hurting the other guy.

When I do this successfully my Troopers take no damage generally speaking. When this goes wrong(very fast enemies/being outnumbered, usually caused by both), my troopers die when they take damage.

So, either my stuff wins handily, or they die alot. And this is true for basically every faction with limited early healing IME, either your dudes manage easily, or they die in one round and having healing would not have helped.