Apart from supression, does CAVALRY has any use?

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Secret Master

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Lack of the doctrine boosts is what hurts cavalry the most though.

I don't disagree with you, but even with no doctrines, CAV is a trade off.

Some folks seem to think CAV is like having free MOT. But I find that the supply cost of CAV makes it unsuitable for certain kinds of employment. You pay less upfront, but in a crowded theater, you lose tactical strength because you can't concentrate as many units in a supply region.

EDIT: And between supply and higher costs, it is an unsuitable replacement for frontline infantry use even if CAV got doctrine buffs.
 
Last edited:

cat013

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So, the bottom line. In Europe cav is pretty useful until 1940-41 (then zee germans just turn into damn space marines with lasers shooting out of their eyes), and elsewhere in the world you might want to keep it all the way.
 

maxirage

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Mostly worthless. Infantry is most useful when paired with line artillery, which you cannot do with cavalry without getting rid of the speed bonus (which is the only reason you'd use them). The 20% larger equipment cost cannot be justified without it.

Their only real use is early war for minor nations before you have access to artillery. So for example, as Mexico, it's the best option for rushing the USA. Aside from that I would avoid it completely.
 

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Infantry is most useful when paired with line artillery, which you cannot do with cavalry without getting rid of the speed bonus (which is the only reason you'd use them).

Most things are more useful with artillery support. :)

But your post brings up something I considered doing as the Soviet Union at one point.

With the NKVD focus and the training speed chief of staff (whose name eludes me for the moment), I considered building NKVD divisions (low width, pure INF) as CAV instead of INF. My thoughts were that CAV divisions move faster, so they could arrive in provinces much faster and reinforce to width in crucial battles in MP. If INF could be a stopgap with the NKVD focus, then CAV would be better.

But I discarded the plan when I realized that pure CAV trains much slower than pure INF, and they would cost significantly more infantry equipment and would burden the supply regions disproportionately to their usefulness. If armored divisions are weighing down the supply network, that's one thing. If throw-way CAV divisions are forcing me to go out of supply (and thus penalizing the real divisions), then I'm shooting myself in the foot.
 

cat013

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For majors cav doesn't make any sense at all. In early wars you outnumber all your neighbors like 100 to 1, and you normally don't get physical with other majors until 1941. It really needs some serious rework.
 

Gefallener_Held

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That cav be nearly as powerful as motorized divisions proves this needs a rework. Some dispute the historical veracity of Polish cavalry being mowed down by German machine guns, but it is at the very least plausible.

There really should be a garrison infantry unit that has high suppression values but low front line combat values. German occupation forces were not made of cavalry units, after all.
 

cat013

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Well, give yourself 15 xp via console, create 1-helmet division and slap an MP support onto it - problem solved.

As for the idea that cavalry "must" suck compared to motorized... you do realize that trucks don't fight and neither do horses?
 

Constans

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Another thing to note is that Cav's speed lines up pretty well with HArm/HTD/HSPAA/HSPArt speed, so if you want a HARM/etc unit that can overrun infantry without spending more than you need to, CAV + HARM/etc fits the bill.

I've definitely used 6xCav,2xLSPArt,1xHTD as a cheaper, slower breakthrough division in some games.

This. I'm a big fan of mixing CAV/HARM as a way of getting a cheaper alternative to MOT/ARM.

It's a useful alternative for minors that still want some armor.
 

Gefallener_Held

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Well, give yourself 15 xp via console, create 1-helmet division and slap an MP support onto it - problem solved.

As for the idea that cavalry "must" suck compared to motorized... you do realize that trucks don't fight and neither do horses?

You can mow down rows of horses or men with machine gun fire like chaffs of wheat to the cythe. Trucks not so much...
 

Gefallener_Held

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Pleeeeease, not this whole "polish sabre charges against german tanks" all over again. As of 1914 cav is mounted inf - no more, no less.
Well, I have seen interviews with German vets who claim to be eyewitnead ss, Even if it did not happen, it still illustrates that cavalry had been superceded by the 20th Century.
 

maxirage

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It's a useful alternative for minors that still want some armor.

I don't think any minor viably runs h-armor. For the production cost of a single H-SPART, you can build almost 5 units of line artillery. The only time I would ever use armor as a minor is in niche scenarios where I'm manpower-limited and have excess industrial capacity.
 

Constans

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I don't think any minor viably runs h-armor. For the production cost of a single H-SPART, you can build almost 5 units of line artillery. The only time I would ever use armor as a minor is in niche scenarios where I'm manpower-limited and have excess industrial capacity.

Eh, if you're in the 25-35 MIC range and you're eschewing an Air Force, you can dedicate 10 or so factories to HARM and the rest to Infantry Equipment (~10)/Artillery(~10)/Support(~5) and thus be in a position to either equip each INF division with a battalion of Armor or to make 4-6 CAV/HARM divisions for a local breakthrough force, with a pretty solid amount of artillery in your INF divisions.

I agree it's impractical for most minors, but when I'm a minor with a good amount of chromium and a prospect of getting to 20-40 MIC, HARM is the way I go for Armor due to the cheaper cost (in resources and IC and TECH (with the 1934 HARM tech researched, you can beeline HARM3 with the ahead of time bonus pretty easily) of building HARM/INF/CAV/ART to building MARM (need to research LARM first)/INF/ART/MOT(dat Oil and IC cost..)

It's a situational thing.
 

seattle

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Outside of suppression, how does CAV stack up to other troop types. Let's take a look at some numbers between CAV and INF and MOT.

You forgot the attack malus that cavalry gets on almost all terrain (see template designer) whereas infantry gets no modifiers at all.
Also one would usually attach line artillery and maybe AT to divisions for the extra punch, not just as support. Once line artillery/AT is employed, the speed advance of cavalry gets nullified.
Finally, comparing two unit types without the effects of doctrines doesn't say too much about the actual combat efficiency in realistic scenarios. I believe that foot infantry also benefits from more tech bonuses, not only doctrines.

My conclusion would be: Only use cavalry for suppression. Only exception would be nations that don't have the IC to attach artillery and fight in terrain where cavalry can shine. Then they might serve as a blitzing force to overrun and encircle the enemy.
 

cat013

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You forgot the attack malus that cavalry gets on almost all terrain (see template designer) whereas infantry gets no modifiers at all.

According to Paradox, a particular mode of transportation (a truck, a horse, a shortbus) the soldiers have used to get to the battlefield affects their performance. I mean, I can easily see our proud shortbus inf ridiculed by the enemy propaganda... but malus - wtf???

(The actual malus of cavalry would be inability to sustain long battles as they simply don't carry enough ammo, but I don't even know what stat would reflect that in the game.)

Also one would usually attach line artillery and maybe AT to divisions for the extra punch, not just as support. Once line artillery/AT is employed, the speed advance of cavalry gets nullified.

IRL cavalry would have special art units capable of keeping up with it's pace. Same for mot inf, btw. Since the early 1930s all new art pieces were specifically designed to be towed by a fast truck. I was really surprised not to see that in the game.

Finally, comparing two unit types without the effects of doctrines doesn't say too much about the actual combat efficiency in realistic scenarios. I believe that foot infantry also benefits from more tech bonuses, not only doctrines.

Looks like the whole game was designed just to make cav feel excluded :)