AoN: Balkan thread

[unmerged(5000)]

Styrbiorn, there is one more thing that i would like to suggest.

Bosnia starts as vasall of Austria-Hungary in 1878 BUT in reality Ottomans left sometimes in the begining of 1878, Bosnia was proclaimed independent by its people and army was build. First in October of 1878 Austrian troops took complete controll of Bosnia. So it could be argued that Bosnia should be independent at the start of 1878 BUT at war with Austria-Hungary. But then Austria is probably going to annex it directly after conquering it instead of vasalasing it so its maybe better to leave it as vasall state.

Do you have flags for Bosnia? If not they can be found at www.fotw.net (Flags of the world site) (btw there are flags for every possible country there)

Here are the links to appropriate flags:

http://www.fotw.net/flags/ba-1878.html (independent bosnia 1878)

http://www.fotw.net/flags/ba-otom.html (flags that bosnia used during ottomans + flag that was used during independence movement of 1830)

http://www.fotw.net/flags/ba-ah.html (flag + coa that was used during Austria-Hungary occupation + flag that was adopted after annexation of 1908)

 

[unmerged(5790)]

I think we know why the macedonian 'VMRO' has such ideas, this is just an attempt to discredit the organisation IMO. The fact is families like Tatarchevi that were leaders of the VMRO emigrated to Bulgaria. This organisation has nothing to do with VMRO but the name -- I need not say more. You're right, let's move on to more constructive things

 

[unmerged(5790)]

Originally posted by emir


1) Macedonia should either be Greek/orthodox or Slavonic/orthodox

2) If its greek orthodox and bulgaria/or some other slavonic state conquers it early on in the game there should be possibility of some event which changes culture to slavonic

3) In case that they are going to divide slavonic into 2 new subgroups. They should divide into East Slavonic (Bulgarians/Macedonians) and West Slavonic (Serbs/Croats/Bosnians/Slovenians/Montenegrians)

Ok?

OK besides that it is my duty to note that there were no 'macedonians' during the timeframe of the game,

1) I agree, and I recommend that they divide Slavonic.
2) There should be a emigration from Macedonia event.

And I have a question:

3) The eu2 provinces being such a mess (e.g. the distance between the Danube and the Aegean sea is half or at least only 2/3 of what it should be) how is the Reunion of principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia of 1885 be simulated?

 

[unmerged(5790)]

Originally posted by emir
I have bunch of ideas on events that I'm going to start writing as soon as my exams are over:

1) Bosnian independence movement under Husein kapetan Gradascevic (1830-1833)

2) Series of events which would give Serbia CB on lots of provinces

3) Illinden upprising (Zmeit we can do this one together if you want )

4) Serbias discontinuation of Montenegrian Orthodox Church of 1920.

+ few other ideas that I have for Croatia/Montenegro/Slovenia

Now you *bet* I wan to help with the Ilinden uprising I can also propose some Bulgarian events:
1) The struggle for a church independent from the greeks (who propagated the so-called 'megali idea'). I don't know what event we can make from that but it is a very importnat moment...
2) The bulgarian legion -- increased revolt risk 1862-68?
3) Of course, the April uprising of 1876.
4) the Tsarigrad/Istanbul conference -- Turkey accepts the plan, Bulgaria and Rumelia become vassals or Turkey rejects the plan (as it historically did), lowered relations with all western coutries and even more with Russia.
5) bulgarian volunteers in the Russo-Turkish war? (some 12,500 men).
6) I don't know about the San Stefano and Berlin treaties. Provinces are too few to simulate anything
7) Same for the Reunion of 1885, provinces too few.

I'll have to think about after 1885 we can get some pretty interesting events about then.

Emir, why don't we discuss the Ilinden uprising event in the chat? If you use IRC you can find me in #europauniversalis on quakenet when I'm online.

 

[unmerged(5000)]

Okay, see you on irc

 

[unmerged(6603)]

An announcement to consider...


to my knowladge, we are only doing one start date (god knows thats enough work within itself) and that will be 1820. With that in mind, please re-examine whatever decisions were made, and let us know if they still apply

Thanks

 

[Vulture]

You are completely correct...

 

[unmerged(5000)]

first post in this thread says:

Basic status (1820)
1853 status
1878 status


This implies that there are several alternative starting points for the scenario. Thats why I was under impression that AoN could be started at 1820/1853/1878. Anyway it doesnt change anything, I'll be doing those events that I said I'll do

 

[Styrbiorn]

You are right about that. We intended to do several startups but now we are concentrating on the first one. Please make all events you can and want to, script them (or just write a detailed description - ie that text you read ingame- and effects), and post them here.

 

[unmerged(5000)]

ok, expect few events around 10th june

 

[unmerged(7529)]

i think it is fair that rumelia should have an event for a greek uprising, since its coastal part had a greek majority, and it had autonomy until bulgarians annexed it. the case i think was pretty much the same as with the greek majority in southern albania (northern epirus).

 

[unmerged(5790)]

Originally posted by iwannhs
i think it is fair that rumelia should have an event for a greek uprising, since its coastal part had a greek majority, and it had autonomy until bulgarians annexed it. the case i think was pretty much the same as with the greek majority in southern albania (northern epirus).

Greeks were a mojority in varna, anhialo and mesembria (i think these are the corect names of them in greek?) anyway, consider that there were much more turks than greeks there, and unlike turks almost all greeks lived only in these three coastal towns.

edit: sheesh what am i saying. im not sure at all about varna, i remember there was a referendum whether to be a part of the bulgarian or greek church... that means there must have been a siuzeable greek population, but a majority i am not sure.

But I don't see a reason to have a greek uprising event...

 

[unmerged(8581)]

Bosnia - certainly not!

Bosnia in 1878 can certainly not be a vassal state of any kind. It should simply become a part of A-H state, and an event signifcantly improving the relationship between The Otomans and Austro-Hungarians and significantly worsening Serbian relationship with these two countries should be made. After all, it triggered that war of 1878 with a lot of independeces proclaimed around. And the Serbs wanted more Bosnia at that time than of Macedonia.

Anyway, put whatever you will, I will make sure it all ends up Serbian in the game, as I did in EU2 (feel free to see it in AAR)

Bosnian culture? But that is an oxymoron! Sheesh! (OK, fire away, Emire, I was joking, actually, I don't think it a bad idea, if it were to be distinct south slavic cultures game-wise, provided the Serbs have a shield on it and a possibility to change it to their own culture if they get Bosnia. Of course, I also think that the Serbs would have to find themselves automatically at war with Austra if they tried that)

 

[unmerged(8581)]

Makedonia

Makedonia, again in terms of the game, should be a separate culture, I think. Why? Then both Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece could have that state culture as their state culture as well. That would produce a lot of anymosity between them, whic hwould be historically correct.

(or make Macedonians something like pagans, so that everybody's missionary could convert them - just a funny thought)

and i'm not in the leats happy with Banat being only Magyar, but I guess it cannot be different. Serbia should have a shield on it, at least that.

Serbia should definitely have a shield on Albania proper. It was always a part of a grand plan, to gain a sea access there. Unfortunatelly for those savage natives there and their puny lives, it did not come to pass becuse of the medling Austrians.

Towards the end of the century there was a great dispute between Montenegro and Serbia. Perhaps some event there?

I'll go back to lurk mode now.

 

[Styrbiorn]

You have some good ideas there, I'll see what I can do. I think I'll give Serbia an interesting set of events, as I think they can be quite fun to play, situated in between of two majors as it is. FYI Serbia will be playable as an Ottoman vassal from 1820.

 

[Vulture]

For now, the Turkish revolt events work out quite well... Saw Romania appear about 50% of the time... Still the Turkish armies are quite powerful though

 

[Styrbiorn]

Originally posted by VultureGFF
For now, the Turkish revolt events work out quite well... Saw Romania appear about 50% of the time... Still the Turkish armies are quite powerful though

Which is good. The Ottoman Empire was in adecline, but not as near as weak as it often is described in Western history books.
I'm creating Serbian events now, suggestions are welcome.

 

[Styrbiorn]

When we're at it. Romania should be formed by a merge of Moldavia and Wallachia. My suggestion is that we remove Romania as a revolter, and add events to Wallachia/Moldadvia. When both are independent, one of them inherits the other and forms Romania.

 

[Vulture]

We STILL need a tag for Romania there then... But I agree with u... I suggest using Wallachia as the 'leader' since that's where Bucarest is

 

[Styrbiorn]

Also, the Wallachian leaders became the first leaders of Romania, so that's the best solution.