Why not? It's Garbon's setup and event sequences after all. Inconsistency in such things would be terrible.
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Why not? It's Garbon's setup and event sequences after all. Inconsistency in such things would be terrible.
Well there is a balance problem between mali and shongai, and if i have to be honest i'd prefer you to check HRE country list instead of answear here. Or much more better answear in both threads 
A little bit of inconstistency isn't such a big deal. I think the united Spain solution is best. And we could always add a move capital event to maintainn consistency.
I did like Ivoria COT, although for no good reason.
Well its not really relevant if ever till late 17th century. It became relevant when Oyo started selling slaves through it.
Mali wasn't entirely dead by 1492, as the Songhai ruler of 1493 and on still had some to conquer. It wouldn't have been able to take Songhai on (why I want to give Bure back to Songhai) but it wasn't gone. I'll look into when Songhai took the Gold Fields.
And this incosistency, unlike that of Spain would be one of map setup. If we didn't have Mali with its capital from the start, it would never make sense for Mali to have it after, as it would be representing some else other than Niani. When Mali was fatally wounded by Songhai its capital moved there and that is where Mali stayed until it was wiped out at the end of the 16th century.
About 1492 i'll still wait to take a decision. It seems there is not complete consensus for one or other settings. For this reason i'll wait. But if mali keep it we should add one more province to shongai, maybe deleting mossi?
About Cots. What i read about it is that portuguese managed theire slave trade from islands, from Fernando Poo. This will help Portugal giving it help to colonize, and avoid of having a ahistorical powerfull african country. It dipends if we will let's take trade advantage to european or african.
About Cots. What i read about it is that portuguese managed theire slave trade from islands, from Fernando Poo. This will help Portugal giving it help to colonize, and avoid of having a ahistorical powerfull african country. It dipends if we will let's take trade advantage to european or african.
We do (or should) have a consensus: unless there are good arguments against, the way things are handled by the 1419 setup and events in EEP should be the default settings. As long as there is no good reason to do so, I don't see why the 1492 scenario should be inconsistent with the rest of the EEP.
No. I was just trying to say you should use the way things are done right now as default until they are changed.
It's my turn then... funny.
What i can told you is that about Fernando Poo, i'm 99% sure. Timbuctu was less important in 16th century compared to the raise of Portuguese slaves trading on the coast. Slaves were collected on isles, selled and shipped for america. I see much more better a starting cot in timbuctu removed by event and replaced with one in Fernando Poo.
About Mali i'm not so sure, but looking to maps Niani Province is far to in the south to be really belonging to mali. Are you really sure there should be malis capital? Regarding my map it show mali going 200 km south of niger, but not till 200 km from the coast like it is now in game.
What i can told you is that about Fernando Poo, i'm 99% sure. Timbuctu was less important in 16th century compared to the raise of Portuguese slaves trading on the coast. Slaves were collected on isles, selled and shipped for america. I see much more better a starting cot in timbuctu removed by event and replaced with one in Fernando Poo.
About Mali i'm not so sure, but looking to maps Niani Province is far to in the south to be really belonging to mali. Are you really sure there should be malis capital? Regarding my map it show mali going 200 km south of niger, but not till 200 km from the coast like it is now in game.
Here is what I could find on Fernando Po:
So it seems, like trade was more in Sao Thome but we don't have that, so the closest would be Fernando Po. However, unless there is a 'very' compelling reason, I agree that scenarios should fall in line with the GC. In our GC, many times Portugal fails to colonize Fernando Po (or it does and natives take out its settlement ). So now while that doesn't affect the 1492 or 1520 scenarios, its something of note, and perhaps its why Paradox has that odd Lagos, trading center. So until more research is done, I say put it where you want, because any option we have now is a bit flawed. I also wouldn't remove the Timbuktu CoT until late into the 16th century, as although its power was diminishing it still existed. Besides if Portugal has a CoT in the area, more of the trade will go to Portugal's CoT then the Timbuktu one.
Now in regards to Niani, in West Africa you can never make comparisons to a real map. It just isn't possible given the bizarre warping and the sparsity of provinces. If look in the East, where we have Hausa, in comparison to a real map, the Hausa states should be under PTI, however, the provinces there have the name of Hausa states. If you look in the EEP West Africa thread, I did a whole right up on this. What it comes down to, is that Niani is an important city and although it may be closer to the coast than it was historically, we really just have to accept that fact and move on. I mean we can always do provinces swaps, like I did moving the Bure and Bambuk goldfields to a more historical location (note that Bure should be south of Niani), but is there anywhere better we can put Niani? If such a place can be found great, but I don't think its likely.
So it seems, like trade was more in Sao Thome but we don't have that, so the closest would be Fernando Po. However, unless there is a 'very' compelling reason, I agree that scenarios should fall in line with the GC. In our GC, many times Portugal fails to colonize Fernando Po (or it does and natives take out its settlement
). So now while that doesn't affect the 1492 or 1520 scenarios, its something of note, and perhaps its why Paradox has that odd Lagos, trading center. So until more research is done, I say put it where you want, because any option we have now is a bit flawed. I also wouldn't remove the Timbuktu CoT until late into the 16th century, as although its power was diminishing it still existed. Besides if Portugal has a CoT in the area, more of the trade will go to Portugal's CoT then the Timbuktu one.
Now in regards to Niani, in West Africa you can never make comparisons to a real map. It just isn't possible given the bizarre warping and the sparsity of provinces. If look in the East, where we have Hausa, in comparison to a real map, the Hausa states should be under PTI, however, the provinces there have the name of Hausa states. If you look in the EEP West Africa thread, I did a whole right up on this. What it comes down to, is that Niani is an important city and although it may be closer to the coast than it was historically, we really just have to accept that fact and move on. I mean we can always do provinces swaps, like I did moving the Bure and Bambuk goldfields to a more historical location (note that Bure should be south of Niani), but is there anywhere better we can put Niani? If such a place can be found great, but I don't think its likely.
Well looking the Niger river Niani city should be in Bambuk province in game. But there is the problem with Niani province named like the city in Bambuk if we move the city there.
Yes, and Jenne (which we now have in Bambuk) is much more important than placing Niani in the right location. Thats why I kept Niani in Niani even though its not the greatest fit. However, if we wanted to get really picky, one could change the city location of the Niani province to the farth northern border of the province.
Bure is in the Jenne province now. I suppose that Bure could go to Niani and then Niani to Segu (it'd still be south of Jenne), but then there wouldn't be anything for the Jenne province.
Well Bambuk province shloud have Jenne, Jenne province should have Niani as this cities are along the Niger, then we should find a city for Niani and Segu.
The only other thing that I can think of (based on this map):
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/mapshells/africa/mali/mali.htm
We could have Bamako in Jenne, Niani in Segu, and Bure in Niani. We wouldn't have Segu, but it looks like it'd be in the Bambuk province anyways, so when we had the Segu-Bambara nation, its capital could be there. That still doesn't help the Niani situation out much, but it does put the Bure goldfield in a more southernly location.
EDIT:Of course that site doesn't allow remote-posting so there's the link
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/mapshells/africa/mali/mali.htm
We could have Bamako in Jenne, Niani in Segu, and Bure in Niani. We wouldn't have Segu, but it looks like it'd be in the Bambuk province anyways, so when we had the Segu-Bambara nation, its capital could be there. That still doesn't help the Niani situation out much, but it does put the Bure goldfield in a more southernly location.
EDIT:Of course that site doesn't allow remote-posting so there's the link
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No, Niani was south of Jenne not West and so it doesn't make sense to have it that far north.
New map is not working. Ok niani was south west, right? but it was on niger river and niger river is in in Jenne and Bambuk province and not in niani or segu.