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Czarina Julie

Czarina
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Apr 11, 2008
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Hi folks,

We have added technologies and reorganized all the Technology screens/tabs. Now we need some technologies, units, doctrines, etc. to fill in the spaces. This is where you, the players, become great assets to the 1.13 development team. Below you will see each new technology screens, explanations of the changes and new technologies. We can't guarantee that all suggestions will make it into the 1.13 release, but if it's not suggested, we can guarantee it won't make it in. Your suggestions need not be limited to WW2 (1936-1945) but before and after as you will see some new technologies are just that. So here's your chance to propose technologies and units.

New events added and suggestions for new events will be on another thread soon.

Infantry

Infantry.PNG


Changes and Technologies Added:
  • Great War Marines
  • Great War Mountain
  • Motorized Cavalry '41 - This new technology is gained when the Improved Motorized Infantry Division has been researched. Now your 1937 Semi-Motorized Cavalry doesn't have to wait until 1946 to be upgraded.
  • Mechanized Cavalry '42 - This new technology is gained when the Improved Mechanized Infantry Division has been researched. Motorized Cavalry '41 will become obsolete.
  • Armored Cavalry '43 - Mechanized Cavalry will become obsolete.
  • Armored Cavalry '46 - Armored Cavalry '43 will become obsolete.
  • 1945 Mechanized Upgrade - This new technology is gained when the Semi-Modern (1945) Mechanized Infantry Division has been researched. When attached, this will give a Semi-Modern Infantry Division the same strength (statistics) as a Semi-Modern (1945) Mechanized Infantry Division.
  • 1947 Mechanized Upgrade - This new technology is gained when the Modern (1947) Mechanized Infantry Division has been researched. When attached, this will give a Modern Infantry Division the same strength (statistics) as a Modern (1947) Mechanized Infantry Division.
  • 1951 Mechanized Upgrade - This new technology is gained when the Elite (1951) Mechanized Infantry Division has been researched. When attached, this will give an Elite Infantry Division the same strength (statistics) as an Elite (1951) Mechanized Infantry Division.
  • The Early Airborne Division now requires two prerequisites, the Great War Infantry Division (as before) and Early Transport and Bomber technologies.
  • Engineers now go to 1946 (1936, 1943, and 1946)

Armor and Artillery

ArmorAndArtillery.PNG


Changes and Technologies Added:
  • Added the Prerequisite ? for unlocking the Basic Rocket Artillery and Surface to Air Missile technologies
  • Under Static Anti-Air, added the new Surface to Air Missile (SAM) 1954 technology
  • Under Anti-Air Brigades, added the new Mobile SAM (1956) technology
  • Moved the Super-Heavy Railway Artillery from the Secret Weapons screen to the Armor & Artillery screen.

Naval

Naval.PNG


Changes and Technologies Added:
  • Added the Prerequisite ? for the new Nuclear Ship Propulsion technology
  • Added the Prerequisite ? for the new Diesel-Electric Ballistic and Ballistic Nuclear Submarines
  • Nuclear Ship Propulsion technology - No more Capital or Screening Ship Nuclear attachments/brigades, nor having to research two nuclear ship propulsion systems. All nuclear ships now require one to build a nuclear ship from keel up.
  • Early Nuclear Air Carrier (CVN) (1957) - Does not make any previous Air Carriers obsolete
  • Super Air Carrier (CV) (1955) - Makes Semi-Modern Air Carrier obsolete, leaving the ability to build Modern and Super Air Carriers
  • Early Nuclear Light Air Carrier (CVLN) (1958) - Makes Semi-Modern Light Carrier obsolete
  • Nuclear Light Cruiser (CLN) (1955) - Makes Advanced Light Cruiser obsolete leaving the ability to build Semi-Modern, Modern, and Nuclear Light Cruisers
  • Nuclear Destroyer (DDN) (1955) - Makes Advanced Destroyer obsolete leaving the ability to build Semi-Modern, Modern, and Nuclear Destroyers
  • Nuclear Battlecruiser (BCN) (1954) - Makes Advanced Battlecruiser obsolete leaving the ability to build Semi-Modern, Modern, and Nuclear Battlecruisers
  • Modern Diesel-Electric Submarine (1951) - Makes Electro Submarine obsolete, leaving the ability to build Semi-Modern and Modern Diesel-Electric Submarines
  • Diesel-Electric Ballistic Submarine (SSB) (1960)
  • Ballistic Nuclear Submarine (SSBN) (1960)
  • Troopship (1918) - Great War Troop Transport - Enables Amphibious Assault
  • Troopship (1929) - InterWar Naval Transport - Makes Great War Troop Transport (1918) obsolete
  • Troopship (1937) - PreWar Sea Transport - Makes InterWar Naval Transport (1929) obsolete. Gives Marines, Infantry, Mountain, and Airborne +1% Shore Attack
  • Troopship (1940) - Transport, Assault Landing Crafts (LC) - Makes PreWar Sea Transport (1937) obsolete. Gives Marines, Infantry, Mountain, and Airborne +2% Shore Attack
  • Troopship (1943) - Tank Landing Ship (LST) - Makes Transport, Assault Landing Crafts (LC) (1940) obsolete. Gives Marines, Infantry, Mountain, Airborne, Motorized Infantry, Cavalry, and Armored +3% Shore Attack. Amphibious Assault Efficiency +10%. Surprise Chance Land Units +0.5%
  • Troopship (1949) - Post-War Naval Transport - Makes Tank Landing Ship (LST) obsolete. Gives Marines, Infantry, Mountain, Airborne, Motorized Infantry, Cavalry, and Armored +4% Shore Attack. Amphibious Assault Efficiency +15%. Surprise Chance Land Units +0.75%
  • Troop Transports now utilize their Transportcapability parameter:
    • Troopship (1918) - Infantry, Airborne, Marine, Mountain, Militia, HQ, and Garrison divisions to be transported.
    • Troopship (1929) - Cavalry and Light Armor Divisions to be transported
    • Troopship (1937) - Motorized Infantry to be transported
    • Troopship (1943) - Armor, Medium, and some Main Battle Tanks to be transported
    • Troopship (1949) - Post war tanks to be transported

Aircraft

Aircraft.PNG


Changes and Technologies Added:
  • Added the Prerequisite ? for Turbojet Design
  • TurboJet Design (1939) - There is no need to research two rocket interceptors, upgrade your interceptors through both rocket interceptors, to just be able to upgrade your interceptors from Advance to Turbojet interceptors.
  • Rocket/Turbojet Airframe (1941)
  • Practical Turbojet Engine (1943)
  • Basic Naval Spotter (1934) - No more Capital and Screen Ship Spotters. Now, only one spotter plane attachment/brigade for all ships.
  • Improved Naval Spotter (1938) - Makes Basic Naval Spotter (1934) obsolete
  • Advanced Naval Spotter (1942) - Makes Improved Naval Spotter (1938) obsolete
  • Late War Naval Spotter (1945) - Makes Advanced Naval Spotter (1942) obsolete
  • The Carrier Air Groups area will become something else. Currently, Drop Tanks (to extend the MRF and Interceptors range) will go there. Still have room for other aircraft attachments and technologies

Industrial

Industrial.PNG


No changes yet, just reorganized and waiting on your suggestions.

Land Doctrines

LandDoctrine.PNG


No changes yet, just reorganized and waiting on your suggestions.

Advanced Technology

AdvancedTech.PNG


Changes and Technologies Added:
  • Moved all nuclear research, reactor, power, and bombs to the Advanced Technology (old Secret Weapons) screen
  • Moved all rocketry and missiles to the Advanced Technology (old Secret Weapons) screen
  • Moved all Cryptography to the Advanced Technology (old Secret Weapons) screen
  • ASM Unguided (1943) - Air to Ground Rocket (unguided) - Creates the new attachment/brigade ASM for CAS, Interceptor, and MRFs
  • ASM (HVAR) (1945) - High Velocity Aircraft Rocket (HVAR) - Makes ASM Unguided (1943) obsolete
  • ASM Guided (1951) - Air to Surface Missile (guided) - Makes ASM (HVAR) (1945) obsolete
  • AAM Unguided (1944) - Air to Air Missile (unguided) - Creates the new attachment/brigade AAM for CAS, Interceptors, and MRFs
  • AAM, Infrared (1956) - Air to Air Infrared Missile - Makes AAM Unguided (1944) obsolete
  • AAM Radar (1958) - Air to Air Radar Missile - Makes AAM, Infrared (1956) obsolete

Naval Doctrines - Screen remains the same, but now all doctrines can now research Basic Camouflage and Improved Camouflage. All ships, including transports, have had their number of attachments raise by 1. This allows transports to be built with Improved Hulls and Camouflage.

Air Doctrines - No changes yet.
 
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We can bring some techs from HoI 1, which has them a lot.

I always wanted to use doctrines for policy-like techs. For instance, we could introduce mobilisation/demobilisation state by adding proper technology and by researching/abandoning doctrine setting it to active or inactive. Every country would have a special tech team called "government", which would have level 10 skill of management only (however hilarious it may sound :D) and those policy techs would have only 1 point difficulty of management. That way they would have quick impact and low prize.
 
Great to see you are making progress.

Happy to give you some suggestions. Here are screen shot from my mod: Based on Darkest Hour but altered quite a bit.

Infantry



Armor



Navy



Aircraft



Industry



Secret Weapons



Land Doctrine



Naval Doctrine



Air Doctrine

 
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Amazing work! This is fantastic!

I can only think of perhaps reworking SP Rocket and Rocket Artillery, and perhaps revisiting all land brigades as it feels so inefficient to try and go for anything except HARM, SPART and ART - all the other options seem too costly in the research cost with little distinctive pay off. The exceptions to this would be TD and AT if you're facing significant numbers of enemy ARM.
 
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Great to see you are making progress.

Happy to give you some suggestions. Here are screen shot from my mod: Based on Darkest Hour but altered quite a bit.
Cool. What mod is this?
 
Maybe also worth publishing this in Steam news? Previous AoD announcements from 2020 got a lot of responses.
 
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I thought that Airborne divisions evolved into air cavalry units, but upon further reading, no -- they still practice jumping out of planes, and AirCav continues as a separate unit: https://www.dvidshub.net/unit/1ACB-1CD
You're correct. Air Assault or, as some countries define it, Air Mobile came from infantry units. A good film that accurately shows Air Assault is We Were Soldiers. The more notable Air Assault division is the 101st Airborne. They are allowed to wear the Airborne tab due to the division's legacy, not their jump status. They are not Airborne/Paratroops. Although some members might have been through Airborne school, they are not on jump status.

When I was in (1977-1997), the 101st was the only Air Assault Division. Most light infantry divisions had their own Air Assault schools, but the division was still considered a light infantry division. I received my AA wings from the 25th ID school back in 1988. Close to 40% drop out rate. Air Assault isn't just about jumping out of helios but consists of pathfinder, sling load, and rappelling operations. Regardless of one's job (MOS), one had to know how to sling load artillery, vehicles, water blivets, etc.

"Here is something I found on Armor and Armored Cavalry: https://history.army.mil/books/lineage/arcav/arcav.htm "

I used that for the 1943 and 1946 Armor Cavalry (and later models to come), this one for German Armored Cav (great links for other units also): https://www.feldgrau.com/ and my own experiences in the 3rd Armored Cavalry (twice) and 11th Armored Cavalry.
 
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Maybe an early version of the agriculture in the tech tree?
A lot of development with the tractor happen past ww1 and into the 1920s it seems.
All the major powers would have it and also most european nations. Not sure about Rep.China.

We should be somewhat careful and not expand too much in 1.13 or the development takes too long.

agriculture.png
 
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I just posted a rather verbose list of suggestions in the Enhancements section.
 
Just passing on some great feedback:-

Suggestions and a feedback below, if you want to copy paste them MarleyTown do so.

I propose a rework for the use of:
1. Rocket Artillery - and their mobile counterpart Self Propelled Rocket artillery,
2. Antitank Artillery - and their more mobile and better counterpart Tank Destroyers
3. Anti air Brigades
4. And finally Armoured Cars.

Most important suggestion is this: they should work by giving bonus on the whole army level they are part of - 12 divisions maximum- when they are attached to just one of the 12 divisions.



1. Rocket Artillery - adds to all divisions in the army grouping that have 1 rocket artillery brigade the following as example: +1 to Soft Attack +1 Hard Attack +1 Defence - this is during DEFENCE only. 20% of the values above if used in Attack. Thus now rocket Artillery becomes a defensive weapon, meaning you use it to strike at enemy troop concentrations that are trying to break trough your front line(attacking you). If you use it when you attack it only adds 20% of its original power as you are bombarding a pice of the front having smaller troop concentrations. So it becomes a weapon to be equipped on Armies that are Ear-marked to hold down the enemy. You can even have it in the Soviet front attached to a infantry division and have 11 militia divisions that get the bonus.

Most Important - Rocket artillery becomes very useful when part of a large division grouping (12 max) and is a defensive weapon reflecting its use by the Soviets and latter on by the Germans when they were on the defensive. It will give players huge tactical opportunities if used correctly but still will be a weapon to be used where needed in defence rather then massed produced and equipped to all divisions we currently do with artillery. It has a niche and its stats should be more powerful then Artillery giving better stats, BUT only on the defensive and only when giving its bonus to many divisions attached to the same army without stacking.


Antitank Artillery should give a bonus +1 against armour & +1 to defence and a +1 to toughness (for example) to all units in the stack it is part of. Upgrades increase those values so next research upgrade gives antitank +1AT +2 Toughness & +2Deff to all divisions and so on.

Most important - adding another AT to an army only stacks by adding 10% for now a total of 110%, thus mass producing them is useless again.
On defence for the normal Antitank Artillery you get full bonus, and only 50% for offence. For Tank destroyers you get 100% on defence and 90% on offence. This simulates how quickly tank destroyers can position to engage enemy tanks when attacking, versus their slower counterparts. But if a front is on a defensive then building and equipping Tank Destroyers is an economical waste as the normal AT gives you same stats butt is cheaper to build and supply.

This will make including AT brigades a good option now, but again the most cost effective is 1 per 12 stack. And you decide if you will be on the offensive or deff and thus which one to build.



Anti Air Brigades give bonuses to all the army units in the same army against air and soft targets (later with new technologies adding hard damage as well), a second brigade has big diminishing returns so you only increase overall strength by 120% for 2 brigades from 100% for one brigade. (thus it realistically increases the firepower but is a waste to do economically - again all this is to make 1 brigade powerful to have and thus wort the time and investment to produce it, but again only one attached to a bigger division grouping, more then one is just a waste.)

Here a an AA brigade is worth having even if you don't face enemy air power as those guns will be used against soft and hard targets.


Armoured Cars - Apart of their stats they give to the devision they are attached to, they also give Army Intelligence of +20 (example) in the provinces they are adjacent to. This will allow us to get a better picture of the enemy army size, composition and movement direction. 2 armoured cars do not stack this bonus.
They also improve bonuses to triggering events. (Like for example Encirclement is more likely to happen if a tank army has an armoured car brigade attached to one of their divisions, thus giving them better intelligence during the fighting which translates in bonuses for the army that have one armored car brigade with them. 2 such armoured car brigades do not increase anymore the chance of those bonuses, obviously)

Thus now, armoured car brigades become important for strategic intelligence gathering, but also are extremely useful to include with high power strike armies, like a Panzer army of 12 divisions which not only has SPA but 1 armoured Car brigade.

What those changes do.

Now players whom are fighting in big fronts (with many divisions grouped together) have an incentive to plan and invest in building and researching those brigades, if they can afford them as they add strategically to the army, but mass producing them is just a waste.

The costs for producing those brigades can be incresed now, as they are not competing with ART or the mobile SP-ART on stats, but are tools to use as part of your overall strategy.


General Feedback:

1. Anti Tank Artillery, the slow counterpart to Tank Destroyers, should be called Anti Tank Guns - I feel it is more appropriate.

2. In your first slide I do not see Mechanized Cavalry '42 and 41. You refer to them but I do not see them. My mistake if I am just blind.

My name is Apsa and this was originally posted on steam. I will not be visiting the paradox forums, so come to steam if you want to discuss anything. (Paradox greets me with STOP! COOKIE TIME - and i have zero tolerances for stupid corporations.)

All thanks to MarleyTown whom started this tread on steam.

From a fellow AoDer called Apsa on Steam, the link to his comment is here - not sure it links directly, but it is under the discussion "1.13 - Technologies being revisited & all welcome to give feedback/suggestions"
 
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Just passing on some great feedback:-



From a fellow AoDer called Apsa on Steam, the link to his comment is here - not sure it links directly, but it is under the discussion "1.13 - Technologies being revisited & all welcome to give feedback/suggestions"

Some interesting ideas here and it would give incentives to research such tech. I don't normally bother with any brigades other than Eng,. Art and AT but this would make it significantly more useful to research and construct at least a few of the types for use in defensive positions especially.
 
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"2. In your first slide I do not see Mechanized Cavalry '42 and 41. You refer to them but I do not see them. My mistake if I am just blind."

They are techs under the Motorized and Mechanized technologies:
MotorizedCav.PNG


MechCav.PNG
 
Most important suggestion is this: they should work by giving bonus on the whole army level they are part of - 12 divisions maximum- when they are attached to just one of the 12 divisions.

Here's my take on how any type of artillery and engineer brigades should work. Army divisions already have combat engineers, ADA/AA, MI, etc. battalions in their TO&E. IRL, actual artillery, engineers, and armored (SEP) brigades are not division assets. They are Corps assets. I have already proposed divisions to not be allowed to have any engineer, artillery, or separate (SEP) armored type brigades attached to them. Instead, only HQ units (Corps) be allowed to have any artillery, engineers, o separate (SEP) armored brigades since IRL the Corps control those brigades and, on occasions, attaching them to divisions at specific times/battles.

We could only allow Corps to have Artillery, engineers, or separate (SEP) armored brigades, up the number of brigades a HQ can have to 2, and re-examine the brigade's parameters. This would need to be voted on since it is not on the schedule to be changed.

As for the intell boost in armor cars, you might want to look at the is post regrading a new unit type here.
 
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Most important suggestion is this: they should work by giving bonus on the whole army level they are part of - 12 divisions maximum- when they are attached to just one of the 12 divisions.

Here's my take on how any type of artillery and engineer brigades should work. Army divisions already have combat engineers, ADA/AA, MI, etc. battalions in their TO&E. IRL, actual artillery, engineers, and armored (SEP) brigades are not division assets. They are Corps assets. I have already proposed divisions to not be allowed to have any engineer, artillery, or separate (SEP) armored type brigades attached to them. Instead, only HQ units (Corps) be allowed to have any artillery, engineers, o separate (SEP) armored brigades since IRL the Corps control those brigades and, on occasions, attaching them to divisions at specific times/battles.

We could only allow Corps to have Artillery, engineers, or separate (SEP) armored brigades, up the number of brigades a HQ can have to 2, and re-examine the brigade's parameters. This would need to be voted on since it is not on the schedule to be changed.

As for the intell boost in armor cars, you might want to look at the is post regrading a new unit type here.
Great ideas, but two Q's:

1. Was this the case in WW II?

2. Is is possible/practical to then lower the cost of the HQ units?

Im my "Enmancements" post I went on about how HQ units should noy have weak FM/LG's attached without a penalty. Attaching these "Shared" brigades to these units, and requiring them to be attached to the corps, makes sense to me!
 
1. Was this the case in WW II?
It was the same. These brigades fell under the Corp commander, but were assigned to divisions as the missions needed. So the 1st Inf Div might have had a Corps artillery brigade assigned to it during a certain battle and the 84th Inf Div (in the same Corp) could have a Corp Engineer brigade to them for a river crossing operation, with the other inf divs in the Corp not getting any brigades attached to it. Then days/weeks later, these same brigades could be assigned to different divisions in the Corps.

2. Is is possible/practical to then lower the cost of the HQ units?
Yes. And it should be done. I've only seen the major nations build any HQs, although some minors do start with some HQs. The HQs cost should be 50% (maybe 60%) of the IC currently, with the manpower and days to complete remaining the same. However, people need to vote, voice their opinion, and approve such a change. I can make the changes, but it's up to what the most of the players want.
 
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Another suggestion made from the Steam thread equivalent to this one:-

Bald Tzu said:
They should just adopt the Iron Cross tech tree. That thing is bullet proof.
 
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Another suggestion made from the Steam thread equivalent to this one:-

Bald Tzu said:


They should just adopt the Iron Cross tech tree. That thing is bullet proof.


I've not looked at the Iron Cross game. I'll download today and see what they have, but IIRC they didn't have the ability to change and fix the game's executable, which allows for more changes. However, it should help with determining some techs to add like DH and Irön Fist.
 
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