Industrious said:
Show me a real life general who doesn't leap on an exploit and I'll show you a fool.
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Show me a real life general who doesn't leap on an exploit and I'll show you a fool.
cdat said:Show me a real life general who doesn't leap on an exploit and I'll show you a fool.
Thank you Cdat!!! War is NOT about playing fair. It is about winning. If the enemy displays stupidity, you use it!
The limiting factor for me on paratrooper use is the cost of transport planes 38IC x 112 days (or more) in CORE. I think for roughly the same IC expenditure I could obtain several armour or marine divisions.
My primary uses for them are:
1. Completing encirclements that allow me to destroy divisions in the resulting pocket
2. Capturing provinces that it would take land based divisions far longer to move into and out of (India for example)
3. Capturing provinces to allow land based divisions swifter movement into and out of in order to defend/attack
4. Opportunistic captures of unguarded but tactically or strategically valuable locations e.g. I have captured Leningrad without a fight before using Paratrooper (with hours) followed by rapid reinforcement by 6 marine divisions (within 2 days)
My primary uses for them are:
1. Completing encirclements that allow me to destroy divisions in the resulting pocket
2. Capturing provinces that it would take land based divisions far longer to move into and out of (India for example)
3. Capturing provinces to allow land based divisions swifter movement into and out of in order to defend/attack
4. Opportunistic captures of unguarded but tactically or strategically valuable locations e.g. I have captured Leningrad without a fight before using Paratrooper (with hours) followed by rapid reinforcement by 6 marine divisions (within 2 days)
After some kind soul on these forums was good enough to inform stupid me how to use them, I have found them very helpful in locking up all those nice Belgian rubber producing provinces in sub-Saharan Africa.
Once you do that you can annex Belgium and achieve near self-sufficiency in rubber. And using the paras is a lot easier than chasing that one division of free french across all those 10 infra provinces that otherwise take bloody forever to cross.
Once you do that you can annex Belgium and achieve near self-sufficiency in rubber. And using the paras is a lot easier than chasing that one division of free french across all those 10 infra provinces that otherwise take bloody forever to cross.
My opinion is that paratroopers are a total waste of time and here is why:
The technology you must get to build paratroopers and the basic transport (based from a starting point of German tech in vanilla HOI 1.06) is equal to building 18.3 infantry divisions. This tech is not required for anything else (apart from improved synthetic materials & the gold tech in heavy aircraft).
For each basic transport you build you could have 8.2 infantry divisions.
For each paratrooper division you build you could have 3.1 infantry divisions.
Upgrading your initial German transports to basic transports costs about 3 infantry divisions each also.
So if you went for a large paratrooper force of 12 divisions with 4 basic transports after having upgraded your initial two transports - it costs the equivalent of 78.8 infantry divisions.
Even if you go for a small force - say upgrade your two transports and then have 4 paras, that will set you back 37.1 infantry divisions.
Maybe in single player when thrashing the AI it can be amusing to use all that spare IC to build paras but in multiplayer I wouldn't even dream of it.
The technology you must get to build paratroopers and the basic transport (based from a starting point of German tech in vanilla HOI 1.06) is equal to building 18.3 infantry divisions. This tech is not required for anything else (apart from improved synthetic materials & the gold tech in heavy aircraft).
For each basic transport you build you could have 8.2 infantry divisions.
For each paratrooper division you build you could have 3.1 infantry divisions.
Upgrading your initial German transports to basic transports costs about 3 infantry divisions each also.
So if you went for a large paratrooper force of 12 divisions with 4 basic transports after having upgraded your initial two transports - it costs the equivalent of 78.8 infantry divisions.
Even if you go for a small force - say upgrade your two transports and then have 4 paras, that will set you back 37.1 infantry divisions.
Maybe in single player when thrashing the AI it can be amusing to use all that spare IC to build paras but in multiplayer I wouldn't even dream of it.
Why would you upgrade your basic transports? It does not take much research to get paratroopers and you can then build 2 or 3 and use them in strategic situations. I will run out of manpower before IC if I use your example of building inf div instead.
If you do the IC math you might find out that it would be better to build a few mech inf div instead of doing the research and building a few para. But IC should be used to strategically enhance a situation so using IC to build a few paratrooper can be a sensible thing. They can quickly do things that no other unit in the game can do.
Historically the biggest paradrop seemed to be on D-Day and Market Garden when three para were dropped (two Ami and one Brit div). I would add 2 or 3 more para at most so that you have a fresh para div around for other drops.
If you do the IC math you might find out that it would be better to build a few mech inf div instead of doing the research and building a few para. But IC should be used to strategically enhance a situation so using IC to build a few paratrooper can be a sensible thing. They can quickly do things that no other unit in the game can do.
Historically the biggest paradrop seemed to be on D-Day and Market Garden when three para were dropped (two Ami and one Brit div). I would add 2 or 3 more para at most so that you have a fresh para div around for other drops.
john heidle said:
I was referring to upgrading the prewar transports you start with to the basic level. Of course you could go with the prewar transports but the 600 range is a bit limited in Russia, the basic transports have 1050 range.
The research involves 6 techs you don't need to get a handful of paratroopers. If you've diverted your attentions to paratroopers from more important pursuits any good Soviet player will be in Berlin within 6 months.
Building an infantry division was an example of something better you could be doing with the IC. I would not recommend Germany use mass infantry armies any more than I would suggest you should use paratroopers.
john heidle said:
Their use is very subjective and it also assumes air superiority, as almost any enemy aircraft will tear transports to ribbons. Air superiority is not as easily achievable against human opponents as it is against the AI.
If you're playing as Germany you have limited manpower, so in teh long run the 18 extra divisions make no difference.
Plus there is the cool factor about a succesfull paradrop, taking Moscow on a 9 division paradrop then hoping to god they last longer enough for your armoured and infantry to bring the supplies to them. Come on we all have seen Band of Brothers its just too dam cool to pass up.....IMO
I use them all the time
I use Tandem Transports - one to drop one to pick up, quicker turnover and necessary for taking low and 0 infra provinces (necessary to cut supply lines in Africa and Soviet Asia). Frankly I can't see how anyone could reasonably expect to accomplish anything in these regions without lots of paratroops and transports. Leapfrogging paratroops you can cover a lot of territory quickly, far more quickly than they can take it back. I imagine MP players who don't use them try to outlaw them because they are hard to defend against.
I use Tandem Transports - one to drop one to pick up, quicker turnover and necessary for taking low and 0 infra provinces (necessary to cut supply lines in Africa and Soviet Asia). Frankly I can't see how anyone could reasonably expect to accomplish anything in these regions without lots of paratroops and transports. Leapfrogging paratroops you can cover a lot of territory quickly, far more quickly than they can take it back. I imagine MP players who don't use them try to outlaw them because they are hard to defend against.