Capt Birdseye said:
I was talking about C.O.R.E. A basic air transport holds one para, and an improved one holds three. I don't remember how many an advanced one holds, as I never build more than three.
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I was talking about C.O.R.E. A basic air transport holds one para, and an improved one holds three. I don't remember how many an advanced one holds, as I never build more than three.
GrevenWhite said:
Air transports in C.O.R.E are very expensive though. There's no such thing as a free lunch
C.O.R.E. is a great mod, thats for sure!
Yes, the second level up can fly from From French N Africa all the way up to around Leningrad. My 3 AB divisions went to helping Rommel drive back the British near Tobruk, to capturing Crete, to capturing a point in the Pripet Marshes, to stemming a SU drive on Finland in about a month. I will never not research AB troops again. They're integral.
I love paratroopers. And I'll get to why in a moment, but first allow me to
digress a little bit...
Lets first take a look at why mechanized / mot units are so useful on the field.
Firepower is obvious, but that's not the kicker. It's mobility. The ability to
move quicky around an operational zone is what's key to to any mobile force.
The ability to move heavy firepower around an operational zone is what makes the
tank such a primary unit in any operation... not just tactically, but
strategically as well. This is why the germans, with less troops... (not
necessarily better troops / tanks) were able to dominate europe... they had
better mobility.
Mobility is why we moved from trench warfare in WWI to the blitzes of WWII.
Mobility, in and of itself is a primary factor to consider when building any
force. By building units that have great mobility, you can out maneuver your
enemy, and keep him/her/it off balance. Keeping yourself, at least one step
ahead of your enemy, means you keep control of the operation. Mobility gives
you the ability to both keep the enemy off balance, and helps you deal with any
unexpected events, while keeping your feet, firmly planted in the operation you
initiated. Mobility helps you keep control... period.
Mobility is why paras are so usefull. They, by far, offer the greatest mobility
of ANY unit available to you. When you spend ic/time on paras/transports, you
are spending it on superior mobility.
Currently (vanilla 1.06: Ger) I've got 6 transports, and 12 paras (I'm shooting
for 18 paras.. 3 per transport). Basically, when buying paras, I'm considering
the transports more than the paras, as those are the most expensive in ic/time.
First, I'll do a quick definition: One para-cycle is the time it takes for the
transports to go from 0 (just droped) to full (ready to drop). You are
utilizing the transport to it's fullest, if you can continuously drop paras
every cycle. (hence the multiple paras per transport). This is why it's
important to consider the transport over the paras, as an active unit.
So, now it's more obvious to see where paras can be successfully utilized. I
use them in 3 ways:
1. Augmenting Assaults
When I launch an important offensive, I like to drop the paras in first. Just
droping in paras gives you an envelopment bonus. I'll usually launch an attack
like so: 2am fighters to clear enemy air for transports. 4am drop paras.
6am(day break) armor blitzes. 7-8am infantry support arrives. (I drop paras
first b/c I can envision then taking important key positions etc... it's what
they did in normandy, so I figure why not?) I'll also drop them in if an
assault seems to be going poorly. The ability for me to have 6 divs droped
anywhere in france within a couple of hours is a giant advantage, and one I
used to help me roll through france in the middle of december/january!
2. Augmenting Defence
Just like augmenting a poor offensive, I can augment a poor defense if
necessary. And it also gives the defenders an envelopment bonus.
3. Capture Empty Providence
As stated above, utilizing paras to capture key, undefended ports, or key empty
providences can lend a mobilty bonus to your OTHER units, as well as cut off
supplies etc. By capturing a providence before your armor gets there, you
effectively increases the mobility of your armor... and who wouldn't want
faster armor? And no, I don't consider this a 'cheat'. It's an exploitation
of your superior mobility.... you spent the ic on it... so use it.
Use your special forces to augment the meat of your armies, and you'll find
that paras are indespensible... use them as front line troops... and you'll find
them less than desirable.
digress a little bit...
Lets first take a look at why mechanized / mot units are so useful on the field.
Firepower is obvious, but that's not the kicker. It's mobility. The ability to
move quicky around an operational zone is what's key to to any mobile force.
The ability to move heavy firepower around an operational zone is what makes the
tank such a primary unit in any operation... not just tactically, but
strategically as well. This is why the germans, with less troops... (not
necessarily better troops / tanks) were able to dominate europe... they had
better mobility.
Mobility is why we moved from trench warfare in WWI to the blitzes of WWII.
Mobility, in and of itself is a primary factor to consider when building any
force. By building units that have great mobility, you can out maneuver your
enemy, and keep him/her/it off balance. Keeping yourself, at least one step
ahead of your enemy, means you keep control of the operation. Mobility gives
you the ability to both keep the enemy off balance, and helps you deal with any
unexpected events, while keeping your feet, firmly planted in the operation you
initiated. Mobility helps you keep control... period.
Mobility is why paras are so usefull. They, by far, offer the greatest mobility
of ANY unit available to you. When you spend ic/time on paras/transports, you
are spending it on superior mobility.
Currently (vanilla 1.06: Ger) I've got 6 transports, and 12 paras (I'm shooting
for 18 paras.. 3 per transport). Basically, when buying paras, I'm considering
the transports more than the paras, as those are the most expensive in ic/time.
First, I'll do a quick definition: One para-cycle is the time it takes for the
transports to go from 0 (just droped) to full (ready to drop). You are
utilizing the transport to it's fullest, if you can continuously drop paras
every cycle. (hence the multiple paras per transport). This is why it's
important to consider the transport over the paras, as an active unit.
So, now it's more obvious to see where paras can be successfully utilized. I
use them in 3 ways:
1. Augmenting Assaults
When I launch an important offensive, I like to drop the paras in first. Just
droping in paras gives you an envelopment bonus. I'll usually launch an attack
like so: 2am fighters to clear enemy air for transports. 4am drop paras.
6am(day break) armor blitzes. 7-8am infantry support arrives. (I drop paras
first b/c I can envision then taking important key positions etc... it's what
they did in normandy, so I figure why not?) I'll also drop them in if an
assault seems to be going poorly. The ability for me to have 6 divs droped
anywhere in france within a couple of hours is a giant advantage, and one I
used to help me roll through france in the middle of december/january!
2. Augmenting Defence
Just like augmenting a poor offensive, I can augment a poor defense if
necessary. And it also gives the defenders an envelopment bonus.
3. Capture Empty Providence
As stated above, utilizing paras to capture key, undefended ports, or key empty
providences can lend a mobilty bonus to your OTHER units, as well as cut off
supplies etc. By capturing a providence before your armor gets there, you
effectively increases the mobility of your armor... and who wouldn't want
faster armor? And no, I don't consider this a 'cheat'. It's an exploitation
of your superior mobility.... you spent the ic on it... so use it.
Use your special forces to augment the meat of your armies, and you'll find
that paras are indespensible... use them as front line troops... and you'll find
them less than desirable.
ltccone said:
That seems like kind of an exploit. Especially if they are behind enemy lines.
A question. If you drop a paratrooper into enemy occupied province, but next to your province, can you retreat him in case of lost battle?
well said we erend them so we should use them how we want
once i had 24 paratroopers but that was before you needed 100% org to drop them but now i dont use them much but i just done some editing to make a Tank paratrooper so should be useing them a bit more ( i know there are mods that do that but this is my custem)
Love my Paras
The v1.06 has forced me to change my behaviour a little because you need 100% org to do a lot of things.
How many para units?
Depends on who I am playing as. Never sacrifice the war for any one idea.
My current games in progress are as SU and second game as Germany to try a few ideas.
In both games I am trying massive Para Assaults along Eastern Front.
Against SU it seems to be a good way to cut off retrating Soviet units.
Against Germans it seems to be a good way to get run over by Armoured Divisions
The v1.06 has forced me to change my behaviour a little because you need 100% org to do a lot of things.
How many para units?
Depends on who I am playing as. Never sacrifice the war for any one idea.
My current games in progress are as SU and second game as Germany to try a few ideas.
In both games I am trying massive Para Assaults along Eastern Front.
Against SU it seems to be a good way to cut off retrating Soviet units.
Against Germans it seems to be a good way to get run over by Armoured Divisions
When playing US vs the world I had some extra IC to burn so I decided to make 9 transports and 9 paras. I was stuck near the end of France, I paradropped into Luxembourg after 2 days of bombing, with the 3 corps I was able to take the undefended maginot line form the french with the exception of metz. The enemy moved there troops back to guard Germany and I was able to make a spearhead to save my troops. If the paratroopers were able to be supplied after drop it would make them 10x more useful.
What changes have CORE made to the Paratroopers?
What changes have CORE made to the Paratroopers?
Mr.G 24 said:
As a 'paratrooper' I agree - but it would drastically affect the balance of the game and make paratroopers WAYYYYY to powerful.
Particularly as the AI cannot respond in kind.
Also historically, paratroopers needed to be reached by advancing forces for supply. Sure there is airlifting supplies but even as late as Dien Bien Phu this has been shown to be a bad idea.
czar1111 said:As a 'paratrooper' I agree - but it would drastically affect the balance of the game and make paratroopers WAYYYYY to powerful.
Particularly as the AI cannot respond in kind.
Also historically, paratroopers needed to be reached by advancing forces for supply. Sure there is airlifting supplies but even as late as Dien Bien Phu this has been shown to be a bad idea.
Yes I see your point but, I really think that the paratrooper can be a gem with the right resources. Say the paratroopers are only in supply to a certain radius of your front and the supply line only last say a month enough to make a decisive movement.
Fair enough.
Shouldn't you take that viewpoint to the HoI 2 Forum?
Hopefully (he says grinding his teeth), the AI in HoI 2 will handle Paratroops
Shouldn't you take that viewpoint to the HoI 2 Forum?
Hopefully (he says grinding his teeth), the AI in HoI 2 will handle Paratroops
While assaulting Persia on my way to India to kick some English @ss, I Tac Air the Persians until they retreat or get destroyed. I then drop 1 para per province that has no defender in it. I then rush my armor and mech through these provinces. I arrive in India to push back the English, secure me some rubber and stop the Americans from building a massive Army to threaten the Baltic countries from the south.
i think that strat redeploy tactic outlined earlier is a bit risky..
#surely they will be in a redeploy pool that covers the one (1) province that they landed in? (assmuming paras dropped behind the lines)
or is this used just to claim an empty province to speed up armour movement?
and how often are there empty provinces on or behind the front line anyway?
Heretic
#surely they will be in a redeploy pool that covers the one (1) province that they landed in? (assmuming paras dropped behind the lines)
or is this used just to claim an empty province to speed up armour movement?
and how often are there empty provinces on or behind the front line anyway?
Heretic
Heretic said:
The AI only goes three deep. Anything beyond that is open. On your drive for Moscow, they switch the capitol back to an empty city and 'suprise', drop a para there! Great resource addition! The cost? 10 IC for that one noble unit who'll parish in combat.
if you play as German, paras are vital,
the only way to win is defeating the russians, the best way to annex Rusia is through the use of paras.
the east area of russia is composed of big provinces and mountains,tanks would take years, so i use 6 paras with transports and coquer all the area very fast,
i always drop them in empty areas, and then relocate mountain troops to defend, when the enemy moves from one province i just jump.
all the way to the east, impossible to stop, if i found resistance there is
usually a province with just 1 unit defending. so i use planes.
but usuarlly their are starving because the first thing that i do is to cut russia in two from north to south with the first jumps.
the other efective technique is using them in defense, when they attack a province with few divisions, and the battle is balanced.
a single jump makes a big difference.
the third technique is the one described with the tanks, you break the line,
your tanks have no time to reach the next empty province but you paras will.
so they jump, and the your tanks reaches the place faster than the enemy.
ideal to make pockets.
the only way to win is defeating the russians, the best way to annex Rusia is through the use of paras.
the east area of russia is composed of big provinces and mountains,tanks would take years, so i use 6 paras with transports and coquer all the area very fast,
i always drop them in empty areas, and then relocate mountain troops to defend, when the enemy moves from one province i just jump.
all the way to the east, impossible to stop, if i found resistance there is
usually a province with just 1 unit defending. so i use planes.
but usuarlly their are starving because the first thing that i do is to cut russia in two from north to south with the first jumps.
the other efective technique is using them in defense, when they attack a province with few divisions, and the battle is balanced.
a single jump makes a big difference.
the third technique is the one described with the tanks, you break the line,
your tanks have no time to reach the next empty province but you paras will.
so they jump, and the your tanks reaches the place faster than the enemy.
ideal to make pockets.
That's an exploit if I ever saw one. When are we gonna have a thinking ai? *crosses fingers for HOI II*