Anyone really missing Imperator Rome and the community we had?

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MohawkWolfo98

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Dec 9, 2018
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Just coming from the disaster and disappointment of Cities Skylines 2, I’m really yearning for the days of Imperator 2.0, when we were really excited for future updates and had a really great dev team we could communicate with to add suggestions etc. Paradox also wasn’t so greedy and willing to update games that wasn’t making them money but because they felt for fans and wanted to try their best to make this game good.

Is it just me or am I wearing a delusion goggles?
 
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It's not just you, but in fairness to Paradox the 2.0 release came after the torches-and-pitchforks mob had grown bored of yelling about how bad I:R was and moved on to CK3 (before moving to Vic3 and now seemingly to CS:2). Keep in mind that the community tone at the I:R 1.0 release was fairly comparable, and it was the combination of dedicated dev work (ended before its time) and the filtering of the community into only those that saw the game's potential from the get-go or re-discovered the game that gave us that hallowed 2.0 feeling.
 
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It's not just you, but in fairness to Paradox the 2.0 release came after the torches-and-pitchforks mob had grown bored of yelling about how bad I:R was and moved on to CK3 (before moving to Vic3 and now seemingly to CS:2). Keep in mind that the community tone at the I:R 1.0 release was fairly comparable, and it was the combination of dedicated dev work (ended before its time) and the filtering of the community into only those that saw the game's potential from the get-go or re-discovered the game that gave us that hallowed 2.0 feeling.
To be fair, I’m one of those CS2 criticises. The game is really disappointing as an avid CS1 enjoyer. :(

Really miss that hallowed 2.0 feeling as you describe. It really felt we were getting somewhere before it was all shut down.
 
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I think the OP has nailed it. The community around the time of Imperator 2:0 was really something to be missed. I am discussing about both the people that had remained in the forum of Imperator as well as (or I should say more importantly) about the devs of the game at the time (Arheo and company).
The community during launch and the time around it was another thing. Unfortunately the people still playing the game at the time of 2.0 where too few as DukeLeto mentioned. I had the feeling that the devs also really wanted to continue improving the game (as they already had) however the financial reality was too harsh for Imperator.
Imho Imperator was maintaining too low a player base (sales of DLC etc) to be kept in life support. It was more profitable for the company to discontinue production and focus on something other.
The really unfortunate for us is that there are few studios that produce complex and well polished historical based games. I am not sure when we will see a game that will become what we all wished Imperator to be. I have never played CS but I am sure that even if CS2 fails there are plenty of companies out there that will produce a good city building game. For a classic antiquity based strategy game that is a whole other story.
 
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As someone who participated a lot on the forums at pre 2.0 times, I miss these times too! I had the feeling, that the dev team really knew, what the game needs, so it could get in the right shape. I also miss the chat with the devs, especially with Snow Crystal. Sadly Paradox decided to end the development. Even now I still think that I:R has the potential of being the best grand strategy game out of all paradox grand strategy series.

And while I'm hardly posting anything here, I still visit from time to time the I:R forums, but sadly they are now very empty.
 
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Yes, but I want to remind you that COVID was something unpredictable, a brief but destructive parenthesis. Just to lift your spirits, I can tell you that many companies have spent millions, if not billions (starting with Zuck, who even changed the name of Facebook to Meta because he believed in it so much), hoping that the COVID situation would remain forever, and we would all live in the metaverse.

Returning to Imperator: Rome (I:R), I now divide Paradox's history into Pre-I:R and Post-I:R. It seems that before I:R, Paradox didn't look like a gambler and played it safe. They released well-made games, managed by competent developers. After I:R, it seems like a series of "bad luck" events occurred, which burned a lot of Paradox (perhaps because appointing a CEO with expertise only in gambling changed the "mentality" of the whole PDX?!), making it more like a gambler.

Because...

I:R was released in the horrible situation we all remember, and players rarely forgive (No Man's Sky, Cyberpunk 2077 are examples! You shouldn't rely on the "we'll fix it later" approach).

Victoria 3: Seriously, a game where almost everyone just wanted a cleaner, clearer Victoria 2 2.0 with a better and modern user interface. Instead, we got a game that was terribly broken in the key aspects: diplomacy, economy, and internal politics.

Cities: Skylines 2: Seriously... I don't know what to say. Not being a fan of city builders, all I know is that they made a game that theoretically should run at its best on futuristic PCs. Besides various issues I've read about on the forum, not to mention the non-Steam mods... there's a saying in computer science, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
 
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Yes, but I want to remind you that COVID was something unpredictable, a brief but destructive parenthesis. Just to lift your spirits, I can tell you that many companies have spent millions, if not billions (starting with Zuck, who even changed the name of Facebook to Meta because he believed in it so much), hoping that the COVID situation would remain forever, and we would all live in the metaverse.

Returning to Imperator: Rome (I:R), I now divide Paradox's history into Pre-I:R and Post-I:R. It seems that before I:R, Paradox didn't look like a gambler and played it safe. They released well-made games, managed by competent developers. After I:R, it seems like a series of "bad luck" events occurred, which burned a lot of Paradox (perhaps because appointing a CEO with expertise only in gambling changed the "mentality" of the whole PDX?!), making it more like a gambler.

Because...

I:R was released in the horrible situation we all remember, and players rarely forgive (No Man's Sky, Cyberpunk 2077 are examples! You shouldn't rely on the "we'll fix it later" approach).

Victoria 3: Seriously, a game where almost everyone just wanted a cleaner, clearer Victoria 2 2.0 with a better and modern user interface. Instead, we got a game that was terribly broken in the key aspects: diplomacy, economy, and internal politics.

Cities: Skylines 2: Seriously... I don't know what to say. Not being a fan of city builders, all I know is that they made a game that theoretically should run at its best on futuristic PCs. Besides various issues I've read about on the forum, not to mention the non-Steam mods... there's a saying in computer science, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Covid has been a boon for many businesses and paradox is one of them. When it was released, IR was the emptiest game it released, and the DLC limited to missions did not improve this problem.

As for forgiving: A player never has to forgive a company's mistakes. If the company makes a mistake or does a poor job, it's their fault, not the player or customer. Unfortunately, companies no longer take responsibility for anything and are content to place the blame on their customers instead of repairing their mistakes.

And finally, I would like to remind you that the game is still considered on pause due to lack of staff because paradox has never officially said that the game is canceled because when we asked the question when it was paused we were told that if the game was dead they would have officially announced it to us. And the message from the person now leaving Paradox who told us that the game was in the closet does not count because it is in the middle of a forum and not on a separate page. (I know I'm quibbling but we're not talking about a modder, but a real company)

Finally I am impatiently awaiting the return of the updates which are still in beta even if I think that once again we will be abandoned without news.
If paradox communication had been truly transparent we would not be here.
 
Covid has been a boon for many businesses and paradox is one of them. When it was released, IR was the emptiest game it released, and the DLC limited to missions did not improve this problem.

As for forgiving: A player never has to forgive a company's mistakes. If the company makes a mistake or does a poor job, it's their fault, not the player or customer. Unfortunately, companies no longer take responsibility for anything and are content to place the blame on their customers instead of repairing their mistakes.

And finally, I would like to remind you that the game is still considered on pause due to lack of staff because paradox has never officially said that the game is canceled because when we asked the question when it was paused we were told that if the game was dead they would have officially announced it to us. And the message from the person now leaving Paradox who told us that the game was in the closet does not count because it is in the middle of a forum and not on a separate page. (I know I'm quibbling but we're not talking about a modder, but a real company)

Finally I am impatiently awaiting the return of the updates which are still in beta even if I think that once again we will be abandoned without news.
If paradox communication had been truly transparent we would not be here.
I know for this motive i wanted they instead release the game as 1.5 or 2.0.
For forgiving: yes, player very harshly forgive, normally they not forgive a big mistaken!On the game they await for much time (Cp2077 not was forgiven by a lot of players,NMS instead yes). The problem are time ago PDX learn from their own mistaken and no longer do. But now they do these error again and again: after the falliture of Empire of sins, they continue to produce a "x-com like game" but "indy stle" (league of lampligthers)...the old PDX NEVER do this mistaken, like old PDX never do the mistaken of out CS2 in this condition...is like PDX lost herself
 
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however the financial reality was too harsh for Imperator.
Imho Imperator was maintaining too low a player base (sales of DLC etc) to be kept in life support. It was more profitable for the company to discontinue production and focus on something other.
What annoys me the most is that they did not even promote imperator 2.0. Nowadays we see so much promotion material from pdx in a lot of popular content creators... They could have at least tried to make a re-release of imperator and promote it a bit, the game certainly had potential. Instead they silently released 2.0 and then killed it. The game was already to be abandoned before 2.0 even released.
 
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Covid has been a boon for many businesses and paradox is one of them. When it was released, IR was the emptiest game it released, and the DLC limited to missions did not improve this problem.

As for forgiving: A player never has to forgive a company's mistakes. If the company makes a mistake or does a poor job, it's their fault, not the player or customer. Unfortunately, companies no longer take responsibility for anything and are content to place the blame on their customers instead of repairing their mistakes.

And finally, I would like to remind you that the game is still considered on pause due to lack of staff because paradox has never officially said that the game is canceled because when we asked the question when it was paused we were told that if the game was dead they would have officially announced it to us. And the message from the person now leaving Paradox who told us that the game was in the closet does not count because it is in the middle of a forum and not on a separate page. (I know I'm quibbling but we're not talking about a modder, but a real company)

Finally I am impatiently awaiting the return of the updates which are still in beta even if I think that once again we will be abandoned without news.
If paradox communication had been truly transparent we would not be here.
COVID fostered a "circling the wagons" mentality for many companies, and I:R does seem to have been a casualty of that. As for "emptiest game it released," I think it's worth revisiting EUIV 1.0. Aside from a handful of events and special mission selections, mostly for European majors, it was not exactly replete with stuff.

And as for the "on pause" business, it's not. We've had several dev confirmations over the past year that the "pause" has been extended into permanency, and that efforts to get it back off the ground failed. Could it be restarted? Yes, but at this point that would be a fairly large investment to retrain a dev team, so unless I:R sees a massive revival it isn't in the cards.
 
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Really miss that hallowed 2.0 feeling as you describe. It really felt we were getting somewhere before it was all shut down.
Part of the problem was that many people felt the game development wasn't going anywhere, and therefore lost interest. For example, why would I care about wonders when most tags still felt like an empty shell? Why did they keep adding content to the tags which already had the most content? Why did they not address the passive AI issue? Why would they add cyan to the UI which had been bashed for being ugly from before release. Then there are all the UI information related jank people brought up in this thread (not just the op):

In the almost two years of post release development I felt like the game was going absolutely nowehere, and had therefore lost interest. When enough people lose interest in a game it usually dies.
And finally, I would like to remind you that the game is still considered on pause due to lack of staff because paradox has never officially said that the game is canceled because when we asked the question when it was paused we were told that if the game was dead they would have officially announced it to us.
They did announce it as officially cancelled (or as close to it as they ever will):
Official Word: Once a game goes into Legacy, it usually stays there unless a third party publisher either picks up the rights or there is a huge demand for the game that generates enough attention to get the Devs back into the mix. These are unlikely edge cases, but not impossible.
 
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Yes, but I want to remind you that COVID was something unpredictable, a brief but destructive parenthesis. Just to lift your spirits, I can tell you that many companies have spent millions, if not billions (starting with Zuck, who even changed the name of Facebook to Meta because he believed in it so much), hoping that the COVID situation would remain forever, and we would all live in the metaverse.

Returning to Imperator: Rome (I:R), I now divide Paradox's history into Pre-I:R and Post-I:R. It seems that before I:R, Paradox didn't look like a gambler and played it safe. They released well-made games, managed by competent developers. After I:R, it seems like a series of "bad luck" events occurred, which burned a lot of Paradox (perhaps because appointing a CEO with expertise only in gambling changed the "mentality" of the whole PDX?!), making it more like a gambler.

Because...

I:R was released in the horrible situation we all remember, and players rarely forgive (No Man's Sky, Cyberpunk 2077 are examples! You shouldn't rely on the "we'll fix it later" approach).

Victoria 3: Seriously, a game where almost everyone just wanted a cleaner, clearer Victoria 2 2.0 with a better and modern user interface. Instead, we got a game that was terribly broken in the key aspects: diplomacy, economy, and internal politics.

Cities: Skylines 2: Seriously... I don't know what to say. Not being a fan of city builders, all I know is that they made a game that theoretically should run at its best on futuristic PCs. Besides various issues I've read about on the forum, not to mention the non-Steam mods... there's a saying in computer science, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Paradox is now under the Curse of the Imperator until they release Imperator II with a minimum Metacritic user review score of 8.4
 
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Paradox is now under the Curse of the Imperator until they release Imperator II with a minimum Metacritic user review score of 8.4
It was me, I gave them the Imperator Curse until they give us a sequel or revive it. Have u noticed all their recent games have been off the cliff ;)
 
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Since I discovered and bought the game when it was already "on pause", I never got to experience the community. I found that what remains of it is pretty chill and eager to talk about the game and help. And you also don't have the constant doomposting and (often legitimate) whinning of other games, since, you know, the game is already doomed in a way. But one of the reason why I love this game is precisely because it's stable and DLC light.
 
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I was an active member in the forums back then. IR was the first game that I felt that I was in a community and I was utterly devastated when IR announced it's end, it felt personal.


I then moved to other games but there was something special with Imperator Rome's community.

I miss everything and everyone
 
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It's not just you, but in fairness to Paradox the 2.0 release came after the torches-and-pitchforks mob had grown bored of yelling about how bad I:R was and moved on to CK3 (before moving to Vic3 and now seemingly to CS:2). Keep in mind that the community tone at the I:R 1.0 release was fairly comparable, and it was the combination of dedicated dev work (ended before its time) and the filtering of the community into only those that saw the game's potential from the get-go or re-discovered the game that gave us that hallowed 2.0 feeling.
The Paradox community is so often toxic, and I don't think there's been any title post 2010 that hasn't suffered a lot of criticism at release, usually from fans of the past game that are disappointed that it isn't just a carbon copy of the last game. While there is usually a lot of very valid criticism for the games at release (especially CS2 and IR), I truly don't understand why players don't get how Paradox games work yet. Grand Strategy games, while experiencing a lot of recent popularity, are still a very niche group of games. Many people will try a GST once, and never try it again, because of the overwhelming complexity they are immediately faced with. This makes the GST market of consumers considerably smaller than a company looking to make a new FPS or battle royale. They are also games that, in order to reach the metric ton of content that they need to cover, require many, many years of constant development.

If Paradox tried to make one of their GSTs pay-once rather than DLC driven, the game would be in development for 8 years, release, maybe do well, maybe flop, and then abandoned, because they don't have any proper incentive to continue developing the game. Most people in the GST community know of every new paradox release as they come out, but those outside of it won't pay that much attention. So we'll see a large portion of the total purchases of the game arrive closely following the game's release, and then the game experiences very little growth, as the majority of the niche audience is already wrapped into it, and as the complexity of the game increases over time with updates, as they usually do, then that growth will decline, as the learning curve becomes too steep and deters new players from braving it. If the game at launch had 90% of the total content that Paradox games + DLC end up having, it also makes it even more difficult for anyone, including typical GST gamers but especially anyone else, to actually know what's happening in the game. Paradox games at release have far less complexity than after 5 years of DLC, and this allows the community to gain a gradual understanding of how the game works, and thus tutorials and guides are made that allow others to get into the game. The community also gets valuable input into how the game is structured along this process. If everything was there at launch, it would take months for anybody to get an understanding of what's going on and the proper guides/tutorials to arrive, by which point most people would have given up already and interest would have moved elsewhere.

Like I said, plenty of valid criticism to go around for Paradox games. But complaints about "oh this game has no content yet" or "clearly they just want to pump us for money with DLC" lack any amount of retrospection. A lot of these types of complaints come from people who love games like CK2 or EU4 but somehow fail to realize that without the DLC policy Paradox took with these games, they would be barren and forgotten. If you don't like buying empty games on release, then stop buying them on release; just buy the previous game and wait another 3 years. In many ways, I think the DLC policy has gotten better for newer games like CK3, because EU4 and CK2 had far fewer free update content in the past, and were also far less focused: If you want India related content in EU4, you have the big pack of Dharma, sure, but that's still missing Buddhist related features from Common Sense, Tributary features from Mandate of Heaven, Personal Deities from Wealth of Nations, Sikhism from ?Leviathan?, Islamic features from a billion different packs and many other India-related shenanigans in other random packs. Meanwhile, if you want Viking-related features in CK3, its all in the one pack, and it's not changing anytime soon; when the CK3 team want to add an unrelated feature, they put it in the free update instead. Not to mention, in EU4, core basic features of the game are scattered across random, unrelated DLCs, like Cossacks adding Native Policies, or Res Publica adding national focuses. Like, you look at a tier list for EU4 DLC and you see the top ones not really being there because they have great amounts of content or some interesting feature or mechanic, but because they literally grant a core game mechanic that the game basically doesn't work without. Compare the quality and quantity of stuff added in Art of War released in 2014, considered an S tier DLC, to the dreaded Leviathan DLC released in 2020 and you'll see the major difference: Art of War adds basic core features of warfare that should have been in the initial release, and Leviathan adds a ton of content for a bunch of southeast asia and australasian nations, plus interesting but not vital mechanics for monuments and regencies and more. Tours and Tournaments is an amazing DLC, but the parts of it that are core features came with the free update, like the new travel system.

I could go on for hours, and honestly at some point I think I'll make a youtube video on this, because the devs for these games get so much hate thrown their way that is just ignorant of how much better things are compared to earlier releases like EU4 or HOI4.
 
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