I imagine that it's easier when you start as one of the biggies, but I can't seem to get there from a small (10>) clan. Tips?
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>10 means under ten provinces?
Imo, the size of the clan is secondary. What matters the most is the starting position. Starting at one extremity allows for quiet expansion. Starting in the middle is a sure ride for heavy action. Totally another story.
Something I am going to try is to concede subjugation so to see what happens.
Imo, the size of the clan is secondary. What matters the most is the starting position. Starting at one extremity allows for quiet expansion. Starting in the middle is a sure ride for heavy action. Totally another story.
Something I am going to try is to concede subjugation so to see what happens.
I've found that extremity positions are fine for early game, but late game, size is everything.
I've had at least 4 games where I got to 20-30%, and then got attacked first by one of guys at 30-40%, and then by everyone else. Turns into a bloodbath.
I have done the concede subjugation move, and when it works, it's not so bad. But it rarely works...
I've had at least 4 games where I got to 20-30%, and then got attacked first by one of guys at 30-40%, and then by everyone else. Turns into a bloodbath.
I have done the concede subjugation move, and when it works, it's not so bad. But it rarely works...
I've started a new game with Oyama clan, a small one single province clan that starts just off Usuegi clan. The clan has one benefit: it has two heirs.
I wanted to exchange hostages with Usuegi, an offer they would have accepted but just as that moment, they declared war on the clan down to Oyama.
I held on hostage exchange and went for waiting for an opportunity to double my demesne.
I declared war on the clan below, expecting the Usuegi to crush them. I captured a province with 750 troop. But I did not figure out that Usuegi did not levy troops, only used retinue. So the clan I captured the province from came at me.
I admitted subjugation which was accepted (the balance of power was in their favour really, I had two provinces and 500 levy +250 retinue plus a 15 master of ceremony)
A few minutes later, that clan was itself subjugated by Usuegi.
So I was part of the big blob, ready to grow under its umbrella. Usuegi clan leader requested immediately seppuku as I was low on honour. I accepted as I had two heirs.
Many other great moments and an excellent game looming ahead. I have been forced to make most of things as I started with extremelly low power, stealing siege here and there.
Growing slowly but surely.
One point is that as a subjugated clan leader, I cant knight my own daimyo even with titles I gained by myself. The daimyo is made a direct vassal to the clan leader.
Biding my time. But it looks pretty possible to make it with Oyama clan in my current position.
I wanted to exchange hostages with Usuegi, an offer they would have accepted but just as that moment, they declared war on the clan down to Oyama.
I held on hostage exchange and went for waiting for an opportunity to double my demesne.
I declared war on the clan below, expecting the Usuegi to crush them. I captured a province with 750 troop. But I did not figure out that Usuegi did not levy troops, only used retinue. So the clan I captured the province from came at me.
I admitted subjugation which was accepted (the balance of power was in their favour really, I had two provinces and 500 levy +250 retinue plus a 15 master of ceremony)
A few minutes later, that clan was itself subjugated by Usuegi.
So I was part of the big blob, ready to grow under its umbrella. Usuegi clan leader requested immediately seppuku as I was low on honour. I accepted as I had two heirs.
Many other great moments and an excellent game looming ahead. I have been forced to make most of things as I started with extremelly low power, stealing siege here and there.
Growing slowly but surely.
One point is that as a subjugated clan leader, I cant knight my own daimyo even with titles I gained by myself. The daimyo is made a direct vassal to the clan leader.
Biding my time. But it looks pretty possible to make it with Oyama clan in my current position.
I played my first game as Satake, who start with 7 provinces. It was a learning game so I played on normal difficulty but I had no problems in winning at all. I began by attacking and taking over my smaller neighbouring clans to the north up to the northern peninsula, leaving only a couple of small neighbours as a buffer between myself and uesugi, who were the largest clan, until I was ready to attack. I then ensured the remaining local small clans were all friendly to me, conscripted them to a plot and invaded uesugi, who were also at war with another large clan (I think it was Hosokawa), and so were crushed between the two of us and their provinces divided. I then attacked the neighbouring small clans one by one, grew to a size to rival Hosokawa, then attacked and defeated them. In the end I vassalised them, took all their remaining provices, and now owned 60%. The only remaining clan, Ouchi, did nothing to oppose my claim to the Shogunate.
Not once did another clan declare war on me.
Now playing as Kono on the highest difficulty, have secured my island position by defeating Hosokawa, and am increasing my power by slowly eating up my small neighbours. I'm trying to get my largest vassal to rebel, just to make it more interesting, but he won't bite just yet.
Over all I would say keeping this in mind will give you victory - be sure you know your aims in war, be sure they are achievable, and be sure to achieve them. But then that's the same for any game.
Not once did another clan declare war on me.
Now playing as Kono on the highest difficulty, have secured my island position by defeating Hosokawa, and am increasing my power by slowly eating up my small neighbours. I'm trying to get my largest vassal to rebel, just to make it more interesting, but he won't bite just yet.
Over all I would say keeping this in mind will give you victory - be sure you know your aims in war, be sure they are achievable, and be sure to achieve them. But then that's the same for any game.
I'm in a game as Satake right now. Had some rough moments, particularly when I had to overextend myself a bit by using too many levies and got into the red, and in breaking up the Uesugi. But am up to 27% right now and no one else is even close. My ruler is 29 yo so hopefully I have a while to go before I have to worry about any major political changes. I think that is one of the most troublesome things when you get big - succession can be a wild ride for a big clan.
I've tried the ODA Clan, it's bloody difficult. I've had to restart the game about 7 times before I managed to get a tiny footing of two provinces.
Funny thing about plots. I tried to plot with my fellow Oda dude to leave our current Shiba Clan and he would join and then suddenly leave within weeks. He'll then invite you to a plot to leave the Shiba Clan. In other words with a successful plot, the instigator will be the new Leader of the Clan.
As I could not have the plot last longer, I just accepted it. (happens almost everytime i try to plot)
I then had to start plotting to start a civil war with my fellow Oda dude. Eventually I was given the option to start a civil war (can't remember what the mechanics were but the option fired for me)
So within the first two years all i did was consolidate my position of 4 provinces.
You can't do anything else, because you'll pretty much get stomped by either you former Liege, the Ouchi, the Ogasawara, Yamana, Rokkaku, etc
I've tried the Takeda Clan, it was too simple to be honest. I think the game is best played with Oda, it's mindboggling impossible to breakout of your four territories. Unless of course the plots are made easier to invite people to them. It's quite frustrating to painstakingly click on everybody remotely connected to you to check if they'll plot....
In fact the longer i Play (i'm up to 1503 only) the longer I spend clicking on every damn vassal to try to initiate a plot. (i've gotten to the stage where it's basically steam roll time and i really didnt want to do that...it's boring)
I'm trying to flavor my game with the plots, ronins and ninjas which are sadly, close to impossible, hard to find, keeps disappearing respectively.
Funny thing about plots. I tried to plot with my fellow Oda dude to leave our current Shiba Clan and he would join and then suddenly leave within weeks. He'll then invite you to a plot to leave the Shiba Clan. In other words with a successful plot, the instigator will be the new Leader of the Clan.
As I could not have the plot last longer, I just accepted it. (happens almost everytime i try to plot)
I then had to start plotting to start a civil war with my fellow Oda dude. Eventually I was given the option to start a civil war (can't remember what the mechanics were but the option fired for me)
So within the first two years all i did was consolidate my position of 4 provinces.
You can't do anything else, because you'll pretty much get stomped by either you former Liege, the Ouchi, the Ogasawara, Yamana, Rokkaku, etc
I've tried the Takeda Clan, it was too simple to be honest. I think the game is best played with Oda, it's mindboggling impossible to breakout of your four territories. Unless of course the plots are made easier to invite people to them. It's quite frustrating to painstakingly click on everybody remotely connected to you to check if they'll plot....
In fact the longer i Play (i'm up to 1503 only) the longer I spend clicking on every damn vassal to try to initiate a plot. (i've gotten to the stage where it's basically steam roll time and i really didnt want to do that...it's boring)
I'm trying to flavor my game with the plots, ronins and ninjas which are sadly, close to impossible, hard to find, keeps disappearing respectively.
On my first try as Oda, I launched the plot with the other Oda to break from Shiba even before unpausing the game at start, and it worked like a charm.
I corraled one other Shiba vassal, up north, and we launched the plot right there. Shiba was too busy to do anyting
Then I was in a bind, because you're much too vulnerable. Maybe the trick is too help Shiba grow and prosper before leaving with a share of the clan?
I corraled one other Shiba vassal, up north, and we launched the plot right there. Shiba was too busy to do anyting
Then I was in a bind, because you're much too vulnerable. Maybe the trick is too help Shiba grow and prosper before leaving with a share of the clan?
I did it with the Kitabatake clan who start out as a kokujin vassal of Isshiki with 4 kori. I was able to steal some sieges from my leader's war with Shiba. I gave the extra provinces to a fellow clan member. Pretty soon he started a plot to break away from the Isshiki clan. When we broke off he was the clan leader but I had a plan...
Since my new clan leader was an autogenerated character with no family and no heirs I simply nominated myself as his successor. Not wanting to leave things to chance I also hired some ninjas to take care of him. Now I was clan leader. After that it was simply doing the opportunistic conquering thing to become shogun.
Since my new clan leader was an autogenerated character with no family and no heirs I simply nominated myself as his successor. Not wanting to leave things to chance I also hired some ninjas to take care of him. Now I was clan leader. After that it was simply doing the opportunistic conquering thing to become shogun.
Like I mentioned in our review of the game on the SA, I took the single kori Chiba in eastern Japan all the way to the top. Quite a few resets, breaking off from the Ashikaga ASAP, amazing luck in the early game with the Uesugi falling apart, and some plotting/diplomacy that paid off big (aided by some coordinated 'unfortunate early deaths' via ninja) got me there.
I find the game impossible to play no matter what clan i choose. I find the best clan is nanbu. But when i get to 40% control of Japan the clan leader dies and the heir takes over but is not clan leader for some reason. Im now a vassel. The AI made the 3rd son heir and when i nominated the oldest son he became the pretender. But when the leader died the eldest son became leader and i was demoted to vassel. I tried the big clans but got steam rollerd in the 1st few years due to everyone DOW me. So ill stick to the small clans as their easier to deal with and can expand faster due to the big clans fighting all the time. Ive never seen Uesugi as a big clan in any game ive played so far. They always get taken out very early in the game by Yamana, so have never had to deal with them. Ive played about 30 games so far and Yamana is always the big threat. But every game has been abandoned cause the game screws up everytime. The AI teleports units to anywhere they want and takes a kori as soon as they reach it without putting it under siege. I had a 30,000 strong enemy army appear in my capital, Even though it was way behind the front line. They didnt march their they teleported in. 1 min they were not there the next they appeared out of nowhere and captured it without a siege. It took me 4 years to get an army big enough to march back to my capital to re-take it. But as soon as i got there the enemy army teleported away and reappeard 5 kori away.
Has anybody manage to work there way up as a Kokujin with one Kori? Ive just been playing or practising whichever with a single Kori - the Osumi; under the Shimazu clan. Ive nearly reached 1500AD in the game and two things stand out. Is one the way you suddenly discover you have a new Daimyo who becomes a Clan leader out of the blue. And how a Clan ends up declaring war with another Clan that is nearly the other side of Japan. And you think to yourself why do they need to do that? So far away. Then later on somehow out of the blue an army even a fair size one appears right on your doorstep, from that Clan, to attack your Clan. I would have thought surely a army wouldnt be allowed just to march through all these other clans' territories without their permission or being noticed. I end up seeing armies all over the place moving into other clans' territories. Seems strange to me.
I want to see who has won by starting as a 1 province vassal. Without exploits of course! 
If you start as a vassal of Ouchi, they should give you a bunch of conquered provinces in the Onin War. Then it's just a matter of plotting to break free from the clan (taking most of the clan with you, of course). Once I finish my Sugi game I'll try again with a Kokujin.
The weakest clan I've gotten very far with was Mariyatsu. Most games Uesugi would just crush me but one I gobbled up everything up to a little above Satake. I ended up losing when I declared war on Uesugi when they had marched their armies off to another war only to have the target subjugate almost before they fought and then I got dogpiled by everyone left.
Right now I'm trying to offer subjugation as one of the smaller clans in the Onin war in order to survive it but I'm having a hard time coming out large enough to make any progress in further wars.
Right now I'm trying to offer subjugation as one of the smaller clans in the Onin war in order to survive it but I'm having a hard time coming out large enough to make any progress in further wars.
I just tried a game as the Ando (two-province starter next to Nanbu); I declared war on one of the OPMs next to me... it was going well, but Nanbu quickly declared war on me and I had no way of winning. I offered subjugation, they accepted... and then I was left with nothing to do, so I eventually just quit.
I've won as Satake on normal, and I just fired up an Osaki game. I tried Shirakawa and Soma (I think those are the names, two-province clans just north of Satake, along the coast) and got roflstomped badly. I'm going to try it again next play through.
Cliff when you're clan leader of a big clan, take your heir and give him provinces and daimyo titles. And be sure to go into clan management and nominate him again for good measure once you've given him those titles. I find that when I'm smaller I can leave my heir as master of arms (or something else he's best suited to) with no provinces, and still get him selected when I die. Once I have a few vassals with daimyo titles of their own, their power starts to attract votes and I end up losing my family's position as head of clan (at least I think that's how it works).
Cliff when you're clan leader of a big clan, take your heir and give him provinces and daimyo titles. And be sure to go into clan management and nominate him again for good measure once you've given him those titles. I find that when I'm smaller I can leave my heir as master of arms (or something else he's best suited to) with no provinces, and still get him selected when I die. Once I have a few vassals with daimyo titles of their own, their power starts to attract votes and I end up losing my family's position as head of clan (at least I think that's how it works).
It's great that we can try to fight our way out of vassalization in these dynastic games, IMO. I just managed to break away from my Takeda overlords and form the Mori clan in the original campaign start. It's pretty rewarding just making that leap to independence from a one-province start. I have no idea if I can win the whole campaign, but that was a small victory in itself.
Well I was planning on breaking away eventually... thing is, as a subjugated clan, there is very little you can do, apart from improve provinces and send the occasional ninja clan... so it got really, really boring.