Anyone feel worried about direction?

[Te. Kenzo]

if i may add some thoughts
- Disloyal generals and governors. In civil wars I would add some penalties that really screws the social balance so that you do care if a civil war triggers and the actual result of it (increase the revolt risk for affected pops by region or alligiance, automatic political prosecution-enprisonment-exile-assasination of losing characters that you may find useful, families vendetas, stability hits,...). Usually in EU I do not care much because it has not much political or gameplay consecuences, the country moves on very quickly and the war is never very challenging.
- characters don't have place of birth in information. Interesting
- cursus honorum. I would like to see cursus honorum affecting greatly what a character do and what can be elected to. no teenager generals please. Also put something on the portrait where I can see his level so that I can understand at a glance what offices can he access and making him a threat to other families if his stats are better that their members' candidates (ie. a youngster from another family with more charisma than an appointed governor member)
- Divinations. I want to see politics in omens. populist pigs do not support other factions' politics . I mean, if you choose a pontifex that hates the consul, or from a faction that opposes the consul's prepare to find a twisted liver in that pig. Moreover, if would be nice that pontifex office or any other is not completely chosen by the player but in some cases (you may not have the "political capital") other factions may overrule the candidate preferred by the player. This, or some other mechanic alike that if your mana points (civic?) are not enough the state will start to behave more organically.
- limited number of families. I do not have a problem necessarily with the number of them but their possible passiveness. I would like to see them competing with the player to take control of offices, generals, governors. Also, I want to see clearly in the interface what are the families' objectives, alligiances, who they want to assasinate, what wars they want to start or to end, games or buidings they want to pay for to increase their popularity/influence... I am quite happy to see the new family interface but I think Paradox has a very good opportunity to really make the game feel like a different "animal" and not just a reboot of EU. I think this can be achieved with a dedicated interface to each family stating their ambitions, resources they have, their connections, their offices or regions of influence and your available interactions. I think that would give a better taste of what politics is about, dealing with groups that you do not fully control and have their own initiatives.

agree but teenage generals yes, with some negative reaction with people with more cursus honorum, like with Scipio Africanus and Scipio Aemilianus.

 

[alvaro]

agree but teenage generals yes, with some negative reaction with people with more cursus honorum, like with Scipio Africanus and Scipio Aemilianus.

good point. i didnt think of those.

 

[Thure]

• Random barbarian invasions. I understood the intent of this to mimic the constant threats that Rome would face from tribal peoples invading en masse. But now we have tribal nations on the map, who can even uproot their entire population and invade at once, so why are there still barbarian hordes appearing from nowhere that you have to quell with standing armies?

They came from populated provinces, not claimed by any state... how exactly is this 'out of nowhere'?

 

[monstermash]

• Trade micro-management. I really can't tell if this will be a lot better in I:R than EU:Rome, but the whole distribution of trade between provinces and then your capital is confusing and min-maxing it in any way sounds like a lot of micro-management. In my mind they should simplify the trade system to be national - you get as many trade routes as you have complete provinces, and then each import provides a much smaller bonus to your entire nation.

I am most worried that a single disruption in trade can cause a cancelation of trade through out the world because you will be able to export items you import I hope this wont be a massive problem

 

[Traum77]

They came from populated provinces, not claimed by any state... how exactly is this 'out of nowhere'?

Because it's an entirely random mechanic - the firing of them, the size of the army, all seemed to be RNG-based (I could be wrong about that, but that's how it appeared to a newbie). Also so much of the map was populated provinces not claimed by states, so the invasions could come one after another and a large portion of your game would be fighting them off.

Looks like the new system has a bit more structure, but I don't see it as necessary anymore because those same populated provinces now have tribal nations, which should behave like all other nations, and only invade when either an outside force is pressing on them, or when it's advantageous to do so against the nation they're invading.

 

[Austregisel]

Now without a proper naval mechanic, yes.

 

[Thure]

Because it's an entirely random mechanic - the firing of them, the size of the army, all seemed to be RNG-based (I could be wrong about that, but that's how it appeared to a newbie). Also so much of the map was populated provinces not claimed by states, so the invasions could come one after another and a large portion of your game would be fighting them off.

Looks like the new system has a bit more structure, but I don't see it as necessary anymore because those same populated provinces now have tribal nations, which should behave like all other nations, and only invade when either an outside force is pressing on them, or when it's advantageous to do so against the nation they're invading.

They have a own mapmod which shows how strong babarians are in single provinces. Doesn't look totally random for me.

 

[Traum77]

They have a own mapmod which shows how strong babarians are in single provinces. Doesn't look totally random for me.

Yeah I was talking about in EU:Rome. I:R looks like it is a bit more understandable, but it doesn't negate the point that the mechanic isn't necessary.

 

[Amyntas]

I think many feel the same way as the OP.

The lackluster and simplistic naval mechanics confirm the correctness of this opinion.

A lot of people who will defend the devs no matter what have said that objectively bad decisions like cutting out any meaningful political gameplay/having one consul are because this game is a “sequel to EU Rome”, as if that justifies it.

The problem with that was that EU Rome is one of Paradox’s worst games, even after Vae Victis.

As of right now I don’t plan to buy the game.

Likely what will happen is that there will be massive outcry after release, and they’ll retool the game to make it more like the refeeshing experience many of us hoped for when it was released. Much like Stellaris — although hopefully they will attempt to avoid the absolute disaster that the month of December brought for that particular dev cycle.

Still, as of now, with mods and after updates, Stellaris has become a good game.

Now obviously it’s not right to have our best case scenario be that the game improves over the course of two years from its initial sterile product, but I think that’s the best we can hope for.

 

[Thure]

Yeah I was talking about in EU:Rome. I:R looks like it is a bit more understandable, but it doesn't negate the point that the mechanic isn't necessary.

It represents stuff like the tribals hiding in Sardinian Mountains for exemple who occationaly moved outside and raided the provinces historically. Making them a own tag wouldn't really represent them well, because than they would easily be conquered as landlocked between Carthage.

 

[Denkt]

Barbarian uprising is tied to the civilization value of the cities so civilized nations want to make cities civilized to avoid barbarians.

 

[hyeondrugs]

I'm not. Modders can easily change most of these issues mentioned as they see fit and it probably won't take them too long. Tbh I see the game being developed more towards balance and an eye towards multiplayer. I can see quick games of the diadochi wars in multiplayer becoming a frequent thing. If i wanted a better single player and immersive experience I'd still probably end up playing a mod.

 

[Amyntas]

I'm not. Modders can easily change most of these issues mentioned as they see fit and it probably won't take them too long. Tbh I see the game being developed more towards balance and an eye towards multiplayer. I can see quick games of the diadochi wars in multiplayer becoming a frequent thing. If i wanted a better single player and immersive experience I'd still probably end up playing a mod.

Modders should not have to fix broken things in a mod. Moreover, it's looking like many of the arbitrary things the community dislikes strongly are going to be integral parts of a sterile and map-painter type game. I doubt modders will be able to add a second consul, or more military units.

 

[Thure]

Modders should not have to fix broken things in a mod. Moreover, it's looking like many of the arbitrary things the community dislikes strongly are going to be integral parts of a sterile and map-painter type game. I doubt modders will be able to add a second consul, or more military units.

It's already confirmed both is possible. Imperator will most likely the most moddable PDSgame up to now.

 

[Amyntas]

It's already confirmed both is possible. Imperator will most likely the most moddable PDSgame up to now.

I hope you're right. Where did they say that you could mod the political and naval system? Could you provide a link? That would assuage many of my concerns if true.

 

[Thure]

I hope you're right. Where did they say that you could mod the political and naval system? Could you provide a link? That would assuage many of my concerns if true.

One interesting thing for modders is that you can add and make as many unit-types as you’d like, and they are all written like this.

archers = {
    army = yes
    assault = yes
    is_second_rank = yes
   
   
    enable = yes

    maneuver = 1
    movement_speed = 2
    build_cost = 2
    build_time = 45
   

    light_infantry = 2.0
    heavy_infantry = 1.25
    cavalry = 0.75
    warelephant = 1.0
    horse_archers = 1.0
    archers = 1.0
}

And:

It would take about 1 minute to have 1 year terms, and about an hour to have an office called Minor Consul that swaps with Major Consul every month.

It just does not make the game more fun, as its just random character rotations for you as a player.

 

[Amyntas]

And:

Wow. That’s awesome, I did not know that.

I’m really glad to hear it. Thank you, seriously. This was really helpful and I feel a lot better about the game.

 

[Maulim]

Nah.

Its meeting and in some places exceeding my relatively reasonable expectations.

 

[hyeondrugs]

Modders should not have to fix broken things in a mod. Moreover, it's looking like many of the arbitrary things the community dislikes strongly are going to be integral parts of a sterile and map-painter type game. I doubt modders will be able to add a second consul, or more military units.

So what youre saying is modders shouldnt have to exist? Lol the developers can't appeal to every issue which is why mods exist. Lol. And as shown above, many things can be changed in simple text files.....

 

[maxk94]

I think Pdx knows about their loyal modders who will make this Basic-Version made by developers to a playable game. Pdx just give modders the tool for good games. Yes the tool is the base-game^^