Anyone else despise "Stubborn Nations"?

[Witty Name Here]

Well I was playing a Scotland game today (on a scenario I like to call "Divided world" where I mess up England, France, and various hordes enough to make Europe look like it was patched together by a bunch of different rags) and I got a mission to reconquer Orkney. I knew the Norwegian and Danish armies outnumbered mine, so I had to use a bit of clever tactics. I invaded key Norwegian territories, taking Orkney and Iceland first, then moved cavalry in to take the unfortified provinces in Norway (The A.I. wasn't smart enough to actually take on my transport ships for whatever reason) I reconquered the provinces again and again, raising war score and forcing norway to deal with several rebels.

I frequently asked Denmark for Orkney as tribute to end the war, and despite having something along the lines of 40% war score, they refused to surrender that one tiny island. It got so bad that I was at a point where I ruled all of Norway, Iceland, and had Orkney under my belt, and they still refused to surrender that tiny island in exchange for peace. Then they demanded I pay them my entire treasuries worth of gold for peace.

I don't know if HtTT or DW fixed this issue. But I'm just wondering if anyone else experienced some incredibly, idiotic, stubborn nations who refused to surrender despite it being the only logical choice.

 

[Derahan]

Well I was playing a Scotland game today (on a scenario I like to call "Divided world" where I mess up England, France, and various hordes enough to make Europe look like it was patched together by a bunch of different rags) and I got a mission to reconquer Orkney. I knew the Norwegian and Danish armies outnumbered mine, so I had to use a bit of clever tactics. I invaded key Norwegian territories, taking Orkney and Iceland first, then moved cavalry in to take the unfortified provinces in Norway (The A.I. wasn't smart enough to actually take on my transport ships for whatever reason) I reconquered the provinces again and again, raising war score and forcing norway to deal with several rebels.

I frequently asked Denmark for Orkney as tribute to end the war, and despite having something along the lines of 40% war score, they refused to surrender that one tiny island. It got so bad that I was at a point where I ruled all of Norway, Iceland, and had Orkney under my belt, and they still refused to surrender that tiny island in exchange for peace. Then they demanded I pay them my entire treasuries worth of gold for peace.

I don't know if HtTT or DW fixed this issue. But I'm just wondering if anyone else experienced some incredibly, idiotic, stubborn nations who refused to surrender despite it being the only logical choice.

This or similiar situations happens to me as welll during some of my sessions and i find it outrageously annoying, paradox should look this up for the next patch.

 

[Keperry]

This happens to me all the time, and it definitely wasn't fixed in DW. I've also seen it happen very frequently in Crusader Kings (1) and Victoria II, so it seems like it's just a Paradox thing in general. Maybe it has something to do with war exhaustion?

 

[Derp]

Are you occupying Denmark?

 

[znrch]

IIRC the AI takes a lot of different things into consideration when looking at warscores. Exhaustion, occupation, etc. Also, if Norway is still in the PU with Denmark then you'll have to start occupying Denmark and maybe Sweden. Also, I believe the provinces in Norway aren't worth all that much. Once you start knocking out/pccupying Denmark they'll be more interested in peace.

 

[MiracleTortoise]

Aye. Occupying Norway does nothing but add warscore. You need Denmark's war capacity to decline, and since you can't peace their allies out, you'll have to either occupy their provinces, or destroy their fleets and/or armies and blockade them in to submission. AI rarely accepts peace if they're only in one war and have 100% war capacity (or war score higher than yours, if lower than 100%)

 

[Grindipo]

If you were Denmark, would you agree to peace and give up some land ?

 

[unmerged(204522)]

tactics are only clever when they work.....annexing denmark will give you the sound toll bonus and end the PUs, leaving norway at your mercy in the next war.

 

[Pewt]

Frequently in a big war started by the AI they'll rush in and assault a few of your provinces, giving you a significantly negative warscore. Clearly you should just give up and give them what they want; it's only a tiny piece of land, after all, and they have good warscore!

 

[unmerged(15324)]

I've noticed sometimes if I make the AI a peace offer and it's a silly demand like concede defeat or 10 ducats and they refuse they lose stability. Do you get that from your war score, or their war capacity? I've had to take them down to -3 a couple of times but after that they generally give in to what I want.

 

[maidros]

Well I was playing a Scotland game today (on a scenario I like to call "Divided world" where I mess up England, France, and various hordes enough to make Europe look like it was patched together by a bunch of different rags) and I got a mission to reconquer Orkney. I knew the Norwegian and Danish armies outnumbered mine, so I had to use a bit of clever tactics. I invaded key Norwegian territories, taking Orkney and Iceland first, then moved cavalry in to take the unfortified provinces in Norway (The A.I. wasn't smart enough to actually take on my transport ships for whatever reason) I reconquered the provinces again and again, raising war score and forcing norway to deal with several rebels.

I frequently asked Denmark for Orkney as tribute to end the war, and despite having something along the lines of 40% war score, they refused to surrender that one tiny island. It got so bad that I was at a point where I ruled all of Norway, Iceland, and had Orkney under my belt, and they still refused to surrender that tiny island in exchange for peace. Then they demanded I pay them my entire treasuries worth of gold for peace.

I don't know if HtTT or DW fixed this issue. But I'm just wondering if anyone else experienced some incredibly, idiotic, stubborn nations who refused to surrender despite it being the only logical choice.

Ehh - Britain would not have survived WW2, if things worked on war score in real life ......

 

[-Jester-]

Aye. Occupying Norway does nothing but add warscore. You need Denmark's war capacity to decline, and since you can't peace their allies out, you'll have to either occupy their provinces, or destroy their fleets and/or armies and blockade them in to submission. AI rarely accepts peace if they're only in one war and have 100% war capacity (or war score higher than yours, if lower than 100%)

this

and why would any nation give up territory if they still had an army in the field and manpower to spare?

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Because they are getting their men killed in a war they can no longer realistically win, and they are likely to irritate their enemy into taking more land from them.


Seriously though, unless you start occupying their homeland they are usually quite resistant to peace offers that are not massively in their favour.

 

[Witty Name Here]

If you were Denmark, would you agree to peace and give up some land ?

Yes, Yes I would. You have a nation that not only destroyed the entire Norwegian navy, but also occupies the whole entire country of Norway and it's oversea territories. Would a single, poor, island, off the coast of scotland really matter when an entire country is occupied by your forces? I'd understand if I was only occupying oversea territories like iceland or small places like lappland, however when I occupy all of norway plus those territories, I'd expect the A.I. to just give up the island, they were only making about 3 ducats from it, so it's hardly some pillar of the economy..

 

[Simberto]

But it's not a norwegian king who makes the decision, but a danish one. He probably does not really like norwegians anyways, and will surely not surrender to some scots who have not even landed in a country that actually matters yet. At the moment, he is only a bit irritated by you.

 

[brifbates]

Yes, Yes I would. You have a nation that not only destroyed the entire Norwegian navy, but also occupies the whole entire country of Norway and it's oversea territories. Would a single, poor, island, off the coast of scotland really matter when an entire country is occupied by your forces? I'd understand if I was only occupying oversea territories like iceland or small places like lappland, however when I occupy all of norway plus those territories, I'd expect the A.I. to just give up the island, they were only making about 3 ducats from it, so it's hardly some pillar of the economy..

Well, if you were making a seperate peace with Norway you'd have a point. However, you aren't trying to do that (yes, I know-you can't) but instead are bargaining with Denmark. To enforce your demands on them you have to prove to them you are winning, that means taking their lands and killing their army/navy. Note this also works in your favor at times such as when a 1-3 province minor is the war leader and you get to grab core lands from your unfriendly neighborhood blob because you blitzed a minor country that just happened to be war leader.

 

[TAMBOURINESNAKE]

Frequently in a big war started by the AI they'll rush in and assault a few of your provinces, giving you a significantly negative warscore. Clearly you should just give up and give them what they want; it's only a tiny piece of land, after all, and they have good warscore!

Happens to me all the time, I just straight away give them my provinces.

 

[unmerged(276427)]

I have the opposite problem.
Yesterday Syria was my ally and Venice, another human player, declared war for some juicy egyptian provinces. Despite the fact that my armies were crushing the venetians, the Syrians agreed peace with Venice, giving them a load of high-income provinces.
So...no.

 

[Derahan]

I have the opposite problem.
Yesterday Syria was my ally and Venice, another human player, declared war for some juicy egyptian provinces. Despite the fact that my armies were crushing the venetians, the Syrians agreed peace with Venice, giving them a load of high-income provinces.
So...no.

That's just they AI being no-logical

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Ehh - Britain would not have survived WW2, if things worked on war score in real life ......

Yeah, I think the A.I. gives in too even when it is in a good position to fight on.