Anyone also misses the mini-campaign from HOI3?

[xtfoster]

IIRC, when the Devs responded to this (early in the HOI4 development cycle, when they stated they were only doing the 1936 and 1939 campaigns), they said the analytics (from Steam) showed that most HOI III players (>75%) played the earliest start date (this seems to be true for all their games with multiple start dates), and of those that didn't the vast majority played the September, 1939 start date. Less than 5% played anything else.
Later they said that in HOI4 this trend continued and very few players play anything except the 1 January 1939 start. This probably explains why other than changes to make sure the 1939 scenario will load correctly, they haven't had major changes since the 1st or 2nd DLC.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Since it appear that a lot of the replies are confused:

OP is NOT talking about alternate start date grand campaigns!

He's talking about actual "campaigns" like Fall Gelb, Fall Blau, Desert Fox, that sort of thing

 

[him_15]

Sorry folks, I was actually referring to the various scenario battle (such as North Africa, Case Blue, Battle of Bulge, etc.) not the starting date of the main campaign.

 

[Vlad123]

Going slightly off topic, it would be nice if mom paradox made a map editor easier to use, through nudge (like having only a map of europe, dividing provinces directly via nudge, adding / removing states, modifying the terrain) ... it would be extremely nice to do and would greatly increase the longevity of the game, because making maps of alternative stories would be easier (do you want to do European fallout? It takes 1-2-3 afternoons and you have the map ready)

 

[Ketchup & friends]

People already make cool and weird maps in hoi4 all the time, for example equestria at war, fallout: old world blues, all the what if x country in y place mods, so I'm not sure what you're asking for when you want it to be easier.

Make:
- A tool selecting states, sea zones etc. on the exisitng map. use only them for the scenario and black out the rest of the map.
- A tool to make sripting an OOB easier.
- A tool to set objectives.

 

[Vlad123]

Make:
- A tool selecting states, sea zones etc. on the exisitng map. use only them for the scenario and black out the rest of the map.
- A tool to make sripting an OOB easier.
- A tool to set objectives.

truly! Need this!

 

[master_templar]

Even if cropped, I don't think the hoi4 map would be great for a detailed specific campaign.

That said I do miss them, and the division template designer would allow for some cool historical divisions.

 

[Vlad123]

Even if cropped, I don't think the hoi4 map would be great for a detailed specific campaign.

That said I do miss them, and the division template designer would allow for some cool historical divisions.

Maybay after this are added, an nothing avoid add provinces/states in the cropped map!

 

[Fulmen]

I know I'm beating a dead horse here as this topic's been gone over in dozens of threads in the past and no doubt we'll be seeing it crop up time and again for long after this thread's been done and dusted. But what the hell, I'm bored.

Right, so, battle scenarios. They were in HoI2 and due to popular demand some of them made their way into HoI3.

Did people play them?

Yeah, a few people did.

Did the majority of the player base ignore them throughout their time with HoI, barring perhaps checking them out once or twice?

Yes.

From the perspective of resources spent on making them vs. the revenue and interest to the game they generated, were they a waste of time and money for Paradox Interactive, particularly when opportunity cost is taken into account?

Yes.

Would it thus also be a waste of time and money for Paradox Interactive to add them to HoI4?

Yes.

Were they good at realistically representing the scenarios they covered?

Not particularly.

Would games like The Operational Art of War IV and Gary Grigsby's War in the [insert theatre here] be better suited for representing battle scenarios?

Yes, and I strongly urge people to go play those games.

 

[Vlad123]

I know I'm beating a dead horse here as this topic's been gone over in dozens of threads in the past and no doubt we'll be seeing it crop up time and again for long after this thread's been done and dusted. But what the hell, I'm bored.

Right, so, battle scenarios. They were in HoI2 and due to popular demand some of them made their way into HoI3.

Did people play them?

Yeah, a few people did.

Did the majority of the player base ignore them throughout their time with HoI, barring perhaps checking them out once or twice?

Yes.

From the perspective of resources spent on making them vs. the revenue and interest to the game they generated, were they a waste of time and money for Paradox Interactive, particularly when opportunity cost is taken into account?

Yes.

Would it thus also be a waste of time and money for Paradox Interactive to add them to HoI4?

Yes.

Were they good at realistically representing the scenarios they covered?

Not particularly.

Would games like The Operational Art of War IV and Gary Grigsby's War in the [insert theatre here] be better suited for representing battle scenarios?

Yes, and I strongly urge people to go play those games.

It must be said that an important topic appeared in the thread: namely that paradox invests more in modding tools, or better to modify the map, more easily create OOBs and more ... but this would help modders a lot. if they want to create scenarios, both new starting dates, and just convert the game into [insert mod theme here].

 

[safe-keeper]

Yeah, scenario support for modders would be awesome. So many neat things could be done. I suppose you could make scenarios by simply creating a new bookmark and making the boundaries of the scenario area impassable, but that feels like a pretty clunky solution.

Note that I'm not against the idea of scenarios as such. They can be a great learning experience, they can be an interesting challenge, and they allow you to fight out real, historical campaigns even though HoI4 is a sandbox game. War in the East has a lot of scenarios in addition to their grand campaigns, and they're big fun in addition to teaching you how to play the game.

It's just that scenarios and smaller campaigns will have to be properly tested and supported (unlike in HoI3), and the HoI4 team is small and already has a pretty sizable backlog of things to fix, improve, and balance.

Having said that, I do hope they get around to making a new, better, up-to-date tutorial. With all respect to whoever made it, the current one is nigh-useless.

 

[Vlad123]

Yeah, scenario support for modders would be awesome. So many neat things could be done. I suppose you could make scenarios by simply creating a new bookmark and making the boundaries of the scenario area impassable, but that feels like a pretty clunky solution.

Note that I'm not against the idea of scenarios as such. They can be a great learning experience, they can be an interesting challenge, and they allow you to fight out real, historical campaigns even though HoI4 is a sandbox game. War in the East has a lot of scenarios in addition to their grand campaigns, and they're big fun in addition to teaching you how to play the game.

It's just that scenarios and smaller campaigns will have to be properly tested and supported (unlike in HoI3), and the HoI4 team is small and already has a pretty sizable backlog of things to fix, improve, and balance.

Having said that, I do hope they get around to making a new, better, up-to-date tutorial. With all respect to whoever made it, the current one is nigh-useless.

true but a modding support for map modding i think make very easy the work for modder: Want create a limited scenario? You want. Want create a CSA vs USA scenario? You want, want creare a Fallout on Europe with tons of new state and province? you can!

 

[Ketchup & friends]

From the perspective of resources spent on making them vs. the revenue and interest to the game they generated, were they a waste of time and money for Paradox Interactive, particularly when opportunity cost is taken into account?

Yes.

Would it thus also be a waste of time and money for Paradox Interactive to add them to HoI4?

Yes.

They could make it a DLC. Those who want to play limited scenarios would buy it, and those who are not interested won't.
All content needed for at least 2 possible scenarios (Spanish Civil war, Invasion of Poland) is already provided for the two startdates.

 

[Fulmen]

They could make it a DLC. Those who want to play limited scenarios would buy it, and those who are not interested won't.
All content needed for at least 2 possible scenarios (Spanish Civil war, Invasion of Poland) is already provided for the two startdates.

Sure, and they could also make more profitable DLCs with more potential customers.

And if all the content for the SCW & Invasion of Poland is already there, why exactly would I pay extra just to see them cut most of the map off...?

 

[Ketchup & friends]

And if all the content for the SCW & Invasion of Poland is already there, why exactly would I pay extra just to see them cut most of the map off...?

I. Quick 1vs1 matches. It’s not really possible to play the SCW this way. (alternatively, make NatSpain playable from the start).
II. In a full scenario the player has to do research, focus selection, trade etc. a limited campaign would focus on tactics only.

 

[atredies]

I’ve been playing the series since HOI1 and can’t say I ever played a scenario for longer then a minute or even a later start date, subtracting the grand out of the grand strategy.

Specially to hoi4 I just realized this game is coming up to an anniversary and felt a bit of dismay at how much I still think hoi3 bice is a superior game and how other PDX titles have significantly more DLC choices.

I think this games slow development progress doesn’t need further distractions into the niche stuff only a handful of people use.

I haven’t played for a bit over a year and just came back to the forums today to check out progress, had hoped to see a DLC with a better supply and trade system, or even a USSR focus tree but there’s a pretty uninteresting fuel system instead and build a boat.

I guess this series just isn’t for me anymore.

 

[Vlad123]

I’ve been playing the series since HOI1 and can’t say I ever played a scenario for longer then a minute or even a later start date, subtracting the grand out of the grand strategy.

Specially to hoi4 I just realized this game is coming up to an anniversary and felt a bit of dismay at how much I still think hoi3 bice is a superior game and how other PDX titles have significantly more DLC choices.

I think this games slow development progress doesn’t need further distractions into the niche stuff only a handful of people use.

I haven’t played for a bit over a year and just came back to the forums today to check out progress, had hoped to see a DLC with a better supply and trade system, or even a USSR focus tree but there’s a pretty uninteresting fuel system instead and build a boat.

I guess this series just isn’t for me anymore.

I prefer a map editor when you can easy modfy the map add/remove provinces,region,set city...making all in one thing instahead making manually 1000 files

 

[Jays298]

Most people just don't play later start dates in paradox games where they have them available.

Paradox focusing on a single one just caters to the way the vast majority of their users plays their games. It sucks for the minority that do, but they have their reasons for not bothering.

I think every game ought to have at least two start dates, ideally a few more.

Most games become unrealistic after many years / months (or whatever unit represents the time scale). Borders distort and sometimes weird things happen.

With HOI I really value the pre-war point for alternative campaign ideas, and the 1939 for learning how to actually use the game.

I realized I didn't really like HOI4. Too much emphasis on production and research.

But back to the idea. If a game covers 300 years, there ought to be at least three starts. I'd pay for more starting points or scenarios / campaigns but I will not buy graphics or weird themed expansions.

I never played the mini campaigns in HOI3. I probably should have but I didn't get past the learning phase with it. Same with EU4 which I never really played.

I like the two Rome games because they are complicated enough to be interesting without being tedious.