Anybody for a bit different interactive AAR?

[Brad1]

I think that I might join after I get the hang of what's happening.

 

[hjarg]

M'key, Maur, can you make me the same thing as you did to Vulture? Both about Danzing and Radzivills? Pros and cons?

 

[Vulture]

I start to like the idea more with every post... I don't understand it exactly, but one learns by practice.
Oh yeah, wouldn't it be useful that you distribute the savegame once in a while. So that we all can have a look at things.. Deciding everything here without visuals is difficult

 

[hjarg]

Libertum Veto to that!!!

On the other thought, i like Vulture's idea

 

[Vulture]

Aaaaah thx, that makes me fluffy inside

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Hjarg, i sent you authorization request on ICQ
I'm talking with Suvorov about game mechanics.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Ok, i will post some new things today.

Brad, you're welcome

 

[Vulture]

Ok, may I suggest that we communicate a list with e-mail addresses and ICQ# once all participants are known.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Ok, time for update.

First of all, soon there will be Gen.Suvorov page for this project

We have following players:

1.Me-your beloved king, Jan Olbracht
2.Gen.Suvorov-head of Zamoyscy family
3.Vulture-Cossack Ataman
4.Hjarg-head of Radziwillowie family

We need Danzig merchant leaguemeister, some other nobles, and maybe a head of Church

Rictus and Brad said that they are interested, but i need some more info from you (any channel you would like to use, be it ICQ, PM, e-mail(maur_13@yahoo.com), or posting here).hopefully further details will help you making your mind.

I would also appreciate feedback from anyone.

 

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I would also like to add a new faction, Catholic church of Poland.
It's new idea so it's not developed yet.

 

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Character creation.

All of you will be represented as real persons. Heads of Noble families, Ataman of Dnieper Cossacks, Leaguemeister of Danzig merchants.

You will have to create your character. First decide his age, then (based on his age-older are more experienced, but got drawbacks also)you will be assigned points to distribute among following skills (details will be available shortly on page made by Gen.Suvorov, also we haven't decided their names yet, any feedback is warmly welcomed)
1.Military skills
a)movement
b)fire
c)shock
d)siege
self-explanatory, imho

2.Administration skills
a)ability to make money from your estates, modifies your income
b)ability to raise troops, modifies cost of your troops
c)ability to maintain troops, modifies your troops maintenance cost
d)popularity among peasants, will decrease rebel armies size and/or chance of uprisings during turnmoil.

3.Political skills
a)espionage skills, governing your ability to lurk into other players PMs-discovering their schemes, evaluate abilities of candidates for King, make some dirty tricks, and other stuff like it
b)persuasion-ability to influence your beloved monarch.I will take this skill in consideration, when deciding if i'm going to listen to your advices, requests and so on(especially if you elect a weak king)
c)leadership-since kings were elected viritim , by all PL nobles, even the poorest, it's ability to lead them, make them listen to your advice, it modifies your vote during king's election, and also some other things, but it's yet undecided.

Plays-skill governing ability to make a play, it's from Italy AAR, i'm not familiar with that concept , so i hope Gen.Suvorov or someone else will explain it.

I might add that your character abilities will be hidden from other players.

But i want you to know that you can do almost anything, if it was possible in reality, it's possible in our game. Don't bother with game mechanics, i will have to edit savefiles heavily, but almost everything can be done.

 

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Factions abililies.

1)Danzig merchants

Leaguemeister have all general skills except Leadership (since city inhabitants, though free people, didn't vote). His skill 2a also modifies his income from trade, though.
They can raise troops (inf B, cav A, art C, war B (or C), tra ?)
Income:
Land tax from Danzig and Western Prussia.
also, i will add to their coffers something close to one-tenth of their Cot value (which should encourage them to establish TP, methinks)
Mind you, i will change goods.csv, so Cot values will be different

Unique abilities
They can establish TP overseas, i don't know how to limit it yet.
Later in the game, if they would do well, they will be able to establish overseas colonies also.
Even later, they migh create Companies, (like East India ones)-and at that point even nobles can buy shares(only way they can ever profit from trade), but Company is run by leaguemeister still.

Disadvantages.
Though they have right to attend Diet sessions, they have no right to vote. Since they aren't nobles, they can't RM, and they also can't acquire land (though some highly urbanized provinces-if we acquire them-would join them, especially those with Cots)

 

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Continued.

2)Nobility.

Head of family have all default abilities.

Nobles can raise armies at cost (inf A (or B?), cav D, art A), no ships though.
Their income comes from Land Tax alone (at leas in the beginning, maybe from manufactories later, also see "companies" in Danzig description), they usually have estates in 3-4 provinces.

Abilities:
They vote during Diet session (remember, all decisions must be unanimous), making decisions on followin issues:
1.war and peace-king decides on alliances, but if ally ask us to join a war, an emergency Diet session is called to resolve the issue-if most nobles will be against that war(actually they must all agree to join), there would be no stability hit.
2.budget (sliders)
3.tax (how many of all fractions income would go to royal treasury)
Diet is a legislative body, and can make plenty of other decisions, imposing new laws and abolishing old (list of laws will be available soon-mind you i won't allow something totally ahistorical, especially early in the game). Things like state religion are also heavily influenced by Diet.
Nobles elect a king.
They can also engage in royal marriages, attain position like Grand Hetman of the Crown (supreme militay commander)and so on.

 

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3)Dnieper Cossack

Cossack Ataman have all general skills except leadership (since they can't vote, and even can't attend Diet sessions), administration skill popularity(fat chance rebellion will occur against them).

Their income is handled the same way as noble's, the have posessions in most of southern commownealth provinces.(sietch is located in Krementjug, which i will change to orthodox in game)


Army- (inf D, cav C (or smtg between C and B), art A), galleys (i don't know how much will they cost yet)
Their maintenance costs will be lowered significantly, because cossacks were freemen, not hired soldiers.

Unique ability-call to arms, incite uprising.If some noble (or commonwealth as a whole) become too oppressive to orthodox people, i will hugely increase their army, and every new rebellion in orthodox provinces will be lead by them.(as you can already see, this feature isn't finished yet)
If Commonwealth would ever get gate to Siberia, cossacks will be only one people able to colonize it-at least in the beginning(they will get colonists to use-and this land will be effectively ruled by them, state authority will be almost non-existent)
They will be also able to make raids against Turkey and Crimea (actually against anyone, but in history they raided those two countries), which , if succesful, could boost their treasury.(Raid agains Turkey are made through Black Sea, that's why i included cheap galleys in their army)

 

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Thing that will be changed.

Option for peaceful conversions, if noble is very popular(skill) his province may eventually convert-but it would be much harder to convert orthodox provinces, because that is correct historically, IMHO.

In western provinces mercenaries can be hired, cost for buying them will be much lower, but maintenance rate will be much higher (allowed only for nobles and danzig)

I will also adjust tax income according to population in province, so rebellions will be much costly, and also invasions of Crimea and Turkey (they always kill lot of people when they take city)

If someone didn't noticed there would be no historical leaders, only those who you create. Also i will supply candidates for the crown-but if you want to support candidate from other country (or yourself )tell me earlier, so i can make his personality.

Again, i welcome any ideas and feedback from you.

 

[hjarg]

I was wondering one thing: if we go on a war and gain a province or two, who will get the taxes from there?

Cossacks ability to use rebels is a good idea... but i was thinking that since (IIRC) cossacks were fierce warriors etc, but their main army was conscripted from peasants, so their land tech should theoretically be lagging behind a bit? Not so advanced as we, nobles, have

What will Grand Hetman do? In times of war, will he command all armies and decide who goes where?

And building of manufactories? How we will decide who will be the lucky one to get it? We can't fight over it, there is too much distance between us Or we use our private treasury to accomplish that?

Oh, and what will happen if some ****** assassinates your general, or god forbid, even you ?

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Originally posted by hjarg
I was wondering one thing: if we go on a war and gain a province or two, who will get the taxes from there?

Cossacks ability to use rebels is a good idea... but i was thinking that since (IIRC) cossacks were fierce warriors etc, but their main army was conscripted from peasants, so their land tech should theoretically be lagging behind a bit? Not so advanced as we, nobles, have

Hmm, i don't know i will think about it. (but then, Danzig will have highest tech i think)

What will Grand Hetman do? In times of war, will he command all armies and decide who goes where?

He commands armies, meaning he will be leader of main army(actually there are four Hetmans), but i think it would be hard for me to play a game asking constantly for orders. Anyway, king can always decide he would lead troops himself. But i think i will ask Hetman for general instructions how to handle war. And of course it's source of great pride, to be a hetman. (maybe a boost to leadership skill)

And building of manufactories? How we will decide who will be the lucky one to get it? We can't fight over it, there is too much distance between us Or we use our private treasury to accomplish that?

Simple, manufactories will generate income for person who built it (or persons, in case of joint-venture)-of course i will have to add it as an yearly income.

Oh, and what will happen if some ****** assassinates your general, or god forbid, even you ?

Hmm, i think you misunderstood me, you are your general.Or do you mean me, your king?, well, woe to that person.seriously?next elections.I said it to you,i will repeat it there this is not Italy, assasinations are very rare, in PL nobles just raided their enemies with their private armies (and petty nobles just attacked with their friends). And duelling isn't banned, remember.

If someone kill you? you will have to create next person, from your family, without benefits he earned during his life

 

[Vulture]

So it is entirely possible e.g. that I commmand my cossacks to raid Hjarg's province e.g.???

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Originally posted by VultureGFF
So it is entirely possible e.g. that I commmand my cossacks to raid Hjarg's province e.g.???

Yes, though Hjarg lands are quite far away from your.

 

[hjarg]

And the retaliation will cause utter destruction in your provinces- burning villages, dead peasants, lots of new Cossack-fertilizer for your fields, burnt manufactories, anything imaginable. I'll burn your palace as well... and give your wife as a gift to my victorious armies. So don't even think about it