Any way to stop creation of absurd king titles for younger sons?

[Agenor]

I'm playing Sweden, latest patch, Reformed Germanic, elective gavelkind, and noticed that my ruler's younger son (the son of a concubine, but treated no differently from the sons of a wife for inheritance purposes by the game) was heir to the Kingdom of Norway. Now, here's the thing: the Kingdom of Norway does not exist! I own most of de jure Norway, but deliberately refrained from creating the king title to get it to de jure drift into Sweden.

So what does the game do? I gives my younger son the three counties I own outside my capital duchy plus the Duchy of Bergslagen (which I had created to give a vassal just before my ruler died) plus it creates the Kingdom of Norway for him. The result: a King of Norway, with a capital in Finland, controlling four provinces in Sweden, and without a single province in de jure Norway.

Now, having created this absurd Kingdom of Norway, it has decided my new ruler's younger son is the heir to the Kingdom of Finland (which doesn't exist) as well as the counties of Agder and Akershus. Great, so once my present ruler dies I will get an absurd little Kingdom of Finland in Norway.

Is this WAD? Is it a bug? Or is this perhaps a little joke on the part of the devs? It's simply ridiculous. Is there any way to prevent it without using the console and changing to primogeniture?

 

[Allastair]

WAD because of gavelkind. It creates kingdom titles for younger sons.

 

[kviiri]

WAD because of gavelkind. It creates kingdom titles for younger sons.

Elective gavelkind. Normal GK doesn't have this feature, it only splits off existing kingdom titles.

In any case it's nothing to worry about too much in general. The titles are securely under your dynasty's control and you get claims for any land you lose in this way.

 

[kmh42]

WAD because of gavelkind. It creates kingdom titles for younger sons.

This is Elective Gavelkind. Normal Gavelkind does not create new kingdoms/Empires.

I'm playing Sweden, latest patch, Reformed Germanic, elective gavelkind, and noticed that my ruler's younger son (the son of a concubine, but treated no differently from the sons of a wife for inheritance purposes by the game) was heir to the Kingdom of Norway. Now, here's the thing: the Kingdom of Norway does not exist! I own most of de jure Norway, but deliberately refrained from creating the king title to get it to de jure drift into Sweden.

So what does the game do? I gives my younger son the three counties I own outside my capital duchy plus the Duchy of Bergslagen (which I had created to give a vassal just before my ruler died) plus it creates the Kingdom of Norway for him. The result: a King of Norway, with a capital in Finland, controlling four provinces in Sweden, and without a single province in de jure Norway.

Now, having created this absurd Kingdom of Norway, it has decided my new ruler's younger son is the heir to the Kingdom of Finland (which doesn't exist) as well as the counties of Agder and Akershus. Great, so once my present ruler dies I will get an absurd little Kingdom of Finland in Norway.

Is this WAD? Is it a bug? Or is this perhaps a little joke on the part of the devs? It's simply ridiculous. Is there any way to prevent it without using the console and changing to primogeniture?

Yeah this is all WAD. We all know this is completely strange and it looks like random.
Read this and this for more information. when you want cleaner borders after succession follow this rules:

• Don't get more the one son. Marry a old woman and take concubines and fire them after they gave you a son. Or use seduction and just legitimize one son.
• When you hold more then one kingdom (or more then 50% of the second kingdom which is not created) try to have counties into that kingdom so you other sons (later brothers) gets thiose counties in there newly created kingdom.
• Don't own counties outside of your de jure Duchy/Kingdom
• Make the jump from single Kingdom too Empire in one generation and give the kingdom titles you vassals

 

[kmh42]

... and you get claims for any land you lose in this way.

No not true

Edit: You get claims on same rank titles but not lower one

 

[kviiri]

No not true

Are you sure? It worked like that the last time I played a tribal myself, but it was in CK2+ so it might be different. Wiki also agrees with me: http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Elective_gavelkind

Second, junior heirs always get the choice to become independent. This does not cause a war, but gives the primary heir claims on their primary titles. These claims are not inheritable, but they are strong, allowing them to be pressed simultaneously.

 

[BD13]

No not true

I got strong claims on newly created kingdoms in my last play through. I even gamed the system so I didn't need to spend money creating kingdom titles. I think you only fail to get claims if you have an empire title because they become vassals instead of independent new realms. This was on vanilla with most recent patch.

 

[kmh42]

I got strong claims on newly created kingdoms in my last play through. I even gamed the system so I didn't need to spend money creating kingdom titles. I think you only fail to get claims if you have an empire title because they become vassals instead of independent new realms. This was on vanilla with most recent patch.

Yeah right. You only get claims on same rank titles. I my last tribal games I always was Emperor so I didn't got claims on Kingdoms or duchies.

 

[kviiri]

Yeah right. You only get claims on same rank titles. I my last tribal games I always was Emperor so I didn't got claims on Kingdoms or duchies.

Did they get independent? I think one always gets claims on titles lost through inheritance iff they become independent, but not if one simply vassalizes them.

 

[kmh42]

Did they get independent? I think one always gets claims on titles lost through inheritance iff they become independent, but not if one simply vassalizes them.

Yeah of course. When they stay in your realm you get no claims.

 

[kmh42]

EG is a science of it's own

 

[StarSword]

I'm playing Sweden, latest patch, Reformed Germanic, elective gavelkind, and noticed that my ruler's younger son (the son of a concubine, but treated no differently from the sons of a wife for inheritance purposes by the game) was heir to the Kingdom of Norway. Now, here's the thing: the Kingdom of Norway does not exist! I own most of de jure Norway, but deliberately refrained from creating the king title to get it to de jure drift into Sweden.

So what does the game do? I gives my younger son the three counties I own outside my capital duchy plus the Duchy of Bergslagen (which I had created to give a vassal just before my ruler died) plus it creates the Kingdom of Norway for him. The result: a King of Norway, with a capital in Finland, controlling four provinces in Sweden, and without a single province in de jure Norway.

Now, having created this absurd Kingdom of Norway, it has decided my new ruler's younger son is the heir to the Kingdom of Finland (which doesn't exist) as well as the counties of Agder and Akershus. Great, so once my present ruler dies I will get an absurd little Kingdom of Finland in Norway.

Is this WAD? Is it a bug? Or is this perhaps a little joke on the part of the devs? It's simply ridiculous. Is there any way to prevent it without using the console and changing to primogeniture?

Elective gavelkind is a bitch, but you unlocked the easy solution when you reformed the faith. Switch succession to normal gavelkind and the game will stop making new titles on succession. Though held titles will still be split up if you have multiple heirs, your firstborn will get the primary and your junior heirs cannot become independent unless they inherit a same-tier title.

 

[kviiri]

EG is a science of it's own

Indeed it is! Or should we say, pretty much everything related to succession is.

 

[kmh42]

Indeed it is! Or should we say, pretty much everything related to succession is.

But only EG gives us this results like in the OP. The other succession types are somewhat understandable when you don't mix them but for EG you have to study the CK2 wiki to closely understand it.

 

[kviiri]

But only EG gives us this results like in the OP. The other succession types are somewhat understandable when you don't mix them but for EG you have to study the CK2 wiki to closely understand it.

Well yeah, but mixing tends to happen by accident quite easily. And it gets a bit complicated when you have something like an empire title changing hands between dukes of the empire a lot.

 

[Boodas]

I'm playing Sweden, latest patch, Reformed Germanic, elective gavelkind, and noticed that my ruler's younger son (the son of a concubine, but treated no differently from the sons of a wife for inheritance purposes by the game) was heir to the Kingdom of Norway. Now, here's the thing: the Kingdom of Norway does not exist! I own most of de jure Norway, but deliberately refrained from creating the king title to get it to de jure drift into Sweden.

So what does the game do? I gives my younger son the three counties I own outside my capital duchy plus the Duchy of Bergslagen (which I had created to give a vassal just before my ruler died) plus it creates the Kingdom of Norway for him. The result: a King of Norway, with a capital in Finland, controlling four provinces in Sweden, and without a single province in de jure Norway.

Now, having created this absurd Kingdom of Norway, it has decided my new ruler's younger son is the heir to the Kingdom of Finland (which doesn't exist) as well as the counties of Agder and Akershus. Great, so once my present ruler dies I will get an absurd little Kingdom of Finland in Norway.

Is this WAD? Is it a bug? Or is this perhaps a little joke on the part of the devs? It's simply ridiculous. Is there any way to prevent it without using the console and changing to primogeniture?

You could always slow down your conquests and stick to one de-jure kingdom territory, until you can switch out of elective gavelkind.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Change your laws.

 

[Agenor]

Elective gavelkind is a bitch, but you unlocked the easy solution when you reformed the faith. Switch succession to normal gavelkind and the game will stop making new titles on succession. Though held titles will still be split up if you have multiple heirs, your firstborn will get the primary and your junior heirs cannot become independent unless they inherit a same-tier title.

I can't switch out of elective gavelkind. No other inheritance options show up. There must be other requirements to get these, I suspect a certain level of legalism is required.

Also, the sons and daughters of concubines are not bastards in my game, they are automatically all legitimate (maybe a culture thing?). And when I married my widowed only son who had one son to an older woman thinking "Great! No gavelkind problems for two generations!" he promptly took a concubine and started having more sons....

 

[kviiri]

I can't switch out of elective gavelkind. No other inheritance options show up. There must be other requirements to get these, I suspect a certain level of legalism is required.

Take my advice with a grain of salt since I've played next-to-none tribals outside CK2+ and post-Conclave, but I think non-Muslim tribes are limited to two succession laws: Elective Gavelkind and normal Gavelkind. Unreformed pagans are limited even further, they're locked to Elective Gavelkind. If you want to get rid of it, you have to reform or convert.

 

[StarSword]

I can't switch out of elective gavelkind. No other inheritance options show up. There must be other requirements to get these, I suspect a certain level of legalism is required.

Okay, I dug through the wiki for you and it looks like I was wrong. You have to upgrade your government out of tribalism, or convert to a non-pagan religion, to get gavelkind.

Also, the sons and daughters of concubines are not bastards in my game, they are automatically all legitimate (maybe a culture thing?). And when I married my widowed only son who had one son to an older woman thinking "Great! No gavelkind problems for two generations!" he promptly took a concubine and started having more sons....

WAD. The child of a concubine is essentially a legitimized bastard without the ability to get the nickname "the Bastard": they both get a permanent -1 Dip, but can inherit normally.