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JimboOmega

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Jun 22, 2004
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The thread title is my question.

I see that MPs and other units are utterly worthless in annexed territory. As Japan I have a lot of Nat Chi that I'd rather eliminate the Revolt Risk in. Is there some tech, decision, something I can use to get revolt risk levels more like collaboration government? Or make MP/Gar useful for me like they were in HOI2? I assumed this was a bug in early versions but I assume at this point the inability to suppress is intentional.

So what can I do besides MPs? (And why are these units in the game - just for the more "severe" occupation governments?)
 
It's easy! Wait for 20 years, and it will go down on its own ;)
 
So it is still the case that it is often beneficial to prolong the war so as to have access to the better policies and avoid the minimum revolt risk?

If so, disappointing - I though that would have been fixed before SF.
 
Use garrison forces. If you have lots of manpower, 2x gar and 2x mp. If not, 1x gar and 2x mp. Spread them around.

I had all sorts of supply problems deep in to Russia that were generally relieved by stationing a bunch of garrison forces about my supply lines. Well, that and infrastructure and using less mech units. Garrisons aren't good for squashing revolts, but they're good for generally preventing them and improving supply by reducing revolt risk.

So yeah, more MP's and more suppression techs.
 
It really won't help in annexed land, nationalism gives mimimum revolt risk which can't be reduced by surpression.


Err, i thought that was changed as of 1.4. I know, that, at least, when i stack corps on borders in some of my games i can easily get revolt risk down to 3-4, it not lower.

Yeah, just checked. The is no minimum revolt risk for annexed territory. (stacked a full army on a province, supressed it by 15, but they were only inf brigades)
 
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Err, i thought that was changed as of 1.4. I know, that, at least, when i stack corps on borders in some of my games i can easily get revolt risk down to 3-4, it not lower.

Yeah, just checked. The is no minimum revolt risk for annexed territory. (stacked a full army on a province, supressed it by 15, but they were only inf brigades)

So this has changed, and it is possible to suppress nationalism? Is their minimum revolt risk or not?

I saw that one inf unit in one province wasn't doing much for me earlier, but perhaps it was an issue of suppression value/weight.
 
Whats the rate of reduction for a formation of 2 Gar and 2 MP? They extend to two provinces away right? Do the effects reduce further away? Assuming whatever level of research in the suppression technology. Just a rough idea.
 
Not sure what suppression units are for then cause I stacked 2 garrison + 2 police and it does nothing at all to lower revolt. neither did my 50 infantry divisions either tho :(
 
Not sure what suppression units are for then cause I stacked 2 garrison + 2 police and it does nothing at all to lower revolt. neither did my 50 infantry divisions either tho :(

I'm not 100% sure but I think I remember that the reduction of the revolt risk came gradually. So fast forward a few months to check out if it works. This would also imply that you will have to station them somewhere for a longer time.
 
Well, that's odd then.
In 1.4 (for me at least...)

For annexed territory, there is no mimium revolt risk, or rather, its set to 0. With enough supression you can then reduce it from the default 10 (degrading over time) nationalism value. Also, i beleive that supression works best for the tile its on, and at least for a few tiles around it. Will try and get specifics on that later, can't boot HoI3 this second to test.

As for weight of supression, well. With an entire inf army (60ish brigades) stacked on a single tile, i was getting a supression of about 15. I had messed around with garison/MP divisions a little bit before, building 1gar/3mp. Placed about 10 of these throught my balkan conquests, but they had limited effect on their own, perhaps a single point of supression on their immediate tile. They were only base tech though. Supression values might need to be improved tbh.

Ok, done some testing.

Firstly, went back to my infantry example, was actually 10hq's, 18mtn, 54inf, giving 14.54 supression. took away the hq's and the mtn and got 10.79 supression from the 54inf brigades alone. This gives us approximatly 0.2% reduction per point of supression. I also noticed that in every province that was 1 or 2 tiles away, the supression was half.
Basically, each supression point (unit trait) gives you .2% reduction in the units province, and 0.1% reduction in the surrounding provinces for two tiles.

After this i build some gar/MP/Mp/Mp divisions to check, and with base techs (gar supression is 2, Mp supression is 3), their 11 supression gave 2.2% reduction to revolt risk. 5 of them stacked gave a nice 0 revolt risk on their tile, 10 stacked gave a nice 0 revolt risk for their tile and the surrounding ones. You could also make pure Mp divisions, 4 or even 5*mp, this would probably be more effective if you knew you weren't going to be facing any attacks.

Also, the improved security units reasearch is essential. Mp starts out with a base supression of 3, however the research, which is quite easy, going 2 years ahead of time shouldn't be a challange, raises it by 2 a pop (in other words, a 42 teched Mp brigade has 7 supression instead of 3, or 1.4% reduction per brigade). So yeah, tech them up ;)

Finally, as for optimal placement, i don't have the slightest clue. There's probably one though. For now i'm thinking of trying two mp/mp/mp/mp divisions on a tile, then the same again 3 tiles away, so that they fully supress thier tile, and the overlap from the next one fully supresses the tiles between, but it might be inefficient.
 
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I see that MPs and other units are utterly worthless in annexed territory.
What patch are you playing? Suppression works fine in 1.4. Has it been broken in SF?

In 1.4 you got 20% of the suppression value of the troops in a province reducing the revoltrisk there, and 10% of the total suppression value for one and two provinces away. POL can have their suppression value upgraded. RR decreases at about .5 per year, which helps. For significant suppression you need divisions of GAR+3POL with overlapping ZoCs. IME it takes just a few days to kick in. Maybe a month-end housekeeping... Nationalism had a minimum RR of zero.
 
Playing SF I took out France and have now been occupying it for a year with about 30 2xmiltia+2xMP brigades and also about another 60 divisions scattered around it most with supply problems as the revolt risk in all ex France regions is stuck at around 7.5 and isn't moving down even in Paris where I have 10MPs +around 10 divisions of normal troops so I guess in SF at least in some places you just can't reduce revolt risk and will always have supply problems because of it.

I'm really not looking forward to invading Russia now if it's the same there,low infra + high revolt risk will probably mean moving forward 1 or 2 regions per year waiting for any supplies to reach you and having half your forces losing org and not able to do anything at all.
 
What patch are you playing? Suppression works fine in 1.4. Has it been broken in SF?

In 1.4 you got 20% of the suppression value of the troops in a province reducing the revoltrisk there, and 10% of the total suppression value for one and two provinces away. POL can have their suppression value upgraded. RR decreases at about .5 per year, which helps. For significant suppression you need divisions of GAR+3POL with overlapping ZoCs. IME it takes just a few days to kick in. Maybe a month-end housekeeping... Nationalism had a minimum RR of zero.

I am playing SF (2.0).

I will have to build some MP units when I get the chance but from other posters it sounds like it was changed in Annexed territory?
 
Err, i thought that was changed as of 1.4. I know, that, at least, when i stack corps on borders in some of my games i can easily get revolt risk down to 3-4, it not lower.

Yeah, just checked. The is no minimum revolt risk for annexed territory. (stacked a full army on a province, supressed it by 15, but they were only inf brigades)

We're talking about SF ;)