Any way to get states to join HRE?

[Vainglory]

Does the AI EVER let a player add a province to the HRE when they are not emperor? I have never once gotten the HRE to allow me to add a province, regardless of relationship, when I am not HRE.

Yes, AI Emperors accept human requests to join the Empire. If I am adjacent to the Empire (eg Poland, Teutonic Order, Hungary) I virtually always add enough provinces to get Imperial Integrity (IE add my capital, and daisy chain to it if necessary). Sometimes I have to ask two or three times before I get a yes, but I eventually get a yes.

There are modifiers however. The Emperor won't add anyone larger than his own country. I believe also the higher your infamy the less likely he is to accept, and that you want to max relations in order to have a reasonable chance. The exact code is below:

#Asking to join province
country_event = {
	id = 9493
	title = "EVTNAME9493"
	desc = "EVTDESC9493"
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA9493"
		ai_chance = { 
			factor = 10
			modifier = {
				factor = 2
				relation = { who = FROM value = 150 }
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0
				from = {
					owner = {
						badboy = 0.3
					}
				}
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = 0
				NOT = {
					num_of_cities = FROM
				}
			}
				
		}
		add_imperial_influence = 1
		from = {
			hre = yes
			province_event = 9494
		}
	}
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB9493"
		ai_chance = { 
			factor = 10
		}
		from = {
			hre = no
			province_event = 9495
		}
	}
}

 

[jdrou]

The Emperor won't add anyone larger than his own country.

This is probably the major issue. Players tend to expand rapidly so they'll usually be larger than an AI Emperor.

 

[Mongoose87]

I've had an issue recently with force-released French states joining the HRE.

 

[Vainglory]

This is probably the major issue. Players tend to expand rapidly so they'll usually be larger than an AI Emperor.

I have personally only ever become HRE at game's outset because it's such a nice thing to have. The bonus from Imperial Integrity is:

Technology cost reduced by 10%
Stability cost reduced by 10%
Global revolt risk reduced by 3
Manpower increased by 10%

The manpower alone is like a level 5 Master Recruiter and costs you nothing (prior to Germeiner Pfennig being enacted at least) and no slot, while the Revolt Risk mod is like a level 6 High Judge, again no cost no slot, and you can stack advisers on these bonuses. Stab and Tech aren't modified by advisers that way, but the stab bonus alone is nice when managing a big country. I always go HRE whenever I'm adjacent and have never struggled to do so right off the bat once I've funded the Emperor up to 200 relations. It might take a half dozen attempts to get a province in, but it works.

I've never taken a country that wasn't adjacent, like Lithuania or Castille, and brought them into it - I don't know that I've even joined after 1405 for that matter.

I have to say now that I believe I've misread the modifiers. My Clausewitz skills were always poor and they've atrophied to nothing. I think the modifiers are weightings rather than absolute values. The game assigns a flat 10 to yes and no, and then 0 for 0.3 infamy, and 0 for every province addition to the Emperor's total, and 2 is assigned for relations above 150. So I'd read that as saying it's 50-50 and with low infamy, ideal relations, and -1 or fewer provinces than the Emperor it goes above 50-50. If you have too much infamy and/or too many provinces then your chances decrease to 0.

I came to this conclusion since { modifier = { factor = 0 NOT = {num_of_cities = FROM} } }. I read it this says AI chance is 0 IF the request comes from a country of equal or greater size (because = is actually => in Clausewitz for some reason). Thus if the Emperor is Bavaria with say 6 provinces as it usually is, you'd have 0 chance of getting in if you have 6 or more provinces (cities technically). Yet Bohemia has 7 provinces and is the emperor at game start under the Grand Campaign, and I have successfully added Hungary and the Teutonic Order. The TO has 11 provinces at game start and Hungary 12. I am obviously misreading it.

Given what I have personally observed of the mechanism in action, I'd imagine that it is weightings, thus Hungary at 12 provinces has a harder time getting into the HRE than the Teutonic Order, but with maxed relations and 0 infamy it's still possible. For a country that was say 30 provinces or 10 provinces with 10 infamy it is likely 0% chance.

I've had an issue recently with force-released French states joining the HRE.

You're a little vague - you didn't want them to join and they are, or you do want them to join and they won't?

 

[Antonius66]

Ahh that is why. I can never actually join until I become Emperor because they don't allow larger states. That explains it. I always have to cajole and vassalize my way into becoming emperor, and then daisy chain provinces to my capital, and from there....Renovatio Imperii here I come.

 

[cuendillar]

Ahh that is why. I can never actually join until I become Emperor because they don't allow larger states. That explains it. I always have to cajole and vassalize my way into becoming emperor, and then daisy chain provinces to my capital, and from there....Renovatio Imperii here I come.

I'm not actually certain that Renovatio is the best way to go as Emperor, due to ending up in wars of aggression against everyone who refuse the final two reforms and only getting cores on neighbouring nations - thus potentially giving rebels issues. Failing to stop outside forces from grabbing HRE land might be better, at least early on, as the imperial ban CB gives free cores on those lands at 10% infamy - making it almost as good as reconquest. By not breaking any possible invaders, you'll get more land quicker without losing the nice HRE bonuses or the option to tag-change into something else.

 

[jdrou]

Yet Bohemia has 7 provinces and is the emperor at game start under the Grand Campaign, and I have successfully added Hungary and the Teutonic Order. The TO has 11 provinces at game start and Hungary 12. I am obviously misreading it.

Factors are multipliers, not weights. However, I believe it has been shown that even with a net factor that should be zero, there is still some very small chance of it happening. Probably some internal rounding issue. There is also an issue that some triggers do not get updated instantly when conditions change. See the discussion about dominant_culture for example.

 

[Mongoose87]

You're a little vague - you didn't want them to join and they are, or you do want them to join and they won't?

Didn't want to them to, but they do.

 

[brifbates]

Didn't want to them to, but they do.

Any ai nation whose capital meets the conditions to join will do so eventually. The only way to avoid it is for the player to be emperor or otherwise avoid allowing the required conditions to exist.

 

[Antonius66]

I'm not actually certain that Renovatio is the best way to go as Emperor, due to ending up in wars of aggression against everyone who refuse the final two reforms and only getting cores on neighbouring nations - thus potentially giving rebels issues. Failing to stop outside forces from grabbing HRE land might be better, at least early on, as the imperial ban CB gives free cores on those lands at 10% infamy - making it almost as good as reconquest. By not breaking any possible invaders, you'll get more land quicker without losing the nice HRE bonuses or the option to tag-change into something else.

Last time I just made sure everyone had 150+ relations before the penultimate reform, and I had 0 dissenters when I formed the HRE. I had such a massive army that rebels are no issue. I station 4 or 5 armies around the mainland of Europe and they handle the rebels which die off after 10-20 years.

 

[Vainglory]

Factors are multipliers, not weights.

I'm afraid I still can't comprehend how it all works but that's helpful to know.

However, I believe it has been shown that even with a net factor that should be zero, there is still some very small chance of it happening. Probably some internal rounding issue. There is also an issue that some triggers do not get updated instantly when conditions change. See the discussion about dominant_culture for example.

Ah.

Didn't want to them to, but they do.

Well that's WAD... Minors have good reason to join the HRE since they likely won't be doing much conquest and by joining the HRE they're protected from outside members by the Emperor, plus they gain the boons of Imperial Integrity. If France is busted up it's to the French minors benefit if they shelter under the Emperor's wing.

Not that it wouldn't be irksome. Could try using spies to boost the Emperor's infamy so they won't ask to join.

 

[Char1es]

It would make sense, but I believe the game avoids options like that because in actual history the HRE was in decline throughout this period until it was dissolved. Given an option to "recruit" new members, the HRE would grow too powerful unless the AI treated the offer like vassalization, and even then I often see the the HRE nab 3-5 vassals before the 3rd reform is passed (IIRC only 1 reform was passed historically).

That doesn't mean nation will never join on their own... I've seen various French minors and a four-province Croatia join the HRE for their own protection. However, this is extremely rare and there's no good way to encourage it.

Croatia's the Emperor in my game, despite the fact Austria and Bohemia have hegemonies running into Eurasia.