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CK3, thankfully, has a fair bit more content available present outside of the western European sphere compared to CK2 at launch. But, what's readily apparent is that, in spite of this, the game still HEAVILY lacks content outside of that region: in Europe, you've got a variety of random flavour decisions present, from founding the HRE and restoring Carolingian borders, to instituting French legal codes, and forming Austria.
Meanwhile, in India, becoming the Chakravarti is an option, as well as taking stewardship of the Ganges... but that's really it. The entire steppe region can only work toward becoming Genghis Khan-lite at the moment. And in Arabia and the Levant, you can form Rum.
Obviously, this is an area where the game really needs shoring up - so, with that in mind, does anyone have any ideas?
Personally, I think founding the Shia Caliphate should really come packaged as part of an empire-founding decision (and also the Fatimid Caliphate should really be an empire at game start to prevent them from getting partitioned by succession so heavily)
I'd like to see the Zoroastrian flavour improved, especially around the Saoshyant decision and i think my suggestion below would be fitting. I found some info about Zoroastrianism & Zoroaster's birth place and a really cool natural "wonder" and it was a place of pilgrimage for the Zoroastrians for obvious reasons.
It is also talked about as a place where the Saoshyant would be born and save the world. This should be in the game. That you are "coronated" there once you recover Sistan & you dont actually need all of Persia, only need a kingdom title & to completely control Sistan & have some exalted by men/living legend. If they decide to make it a holy-site from the get-go then that'd be fine. HOWEVER i would LOVE if we could "reclaim" the holy site as it was said this was where the saoshyant would be born - US and that would make it a holy site & Change the Persian Empire Capital to Sistan ( Or current if the Capital is within the Persian Empire ) and give it a unique special building. (The Zhengi has 6 Holy sites already base game)
Another suggestion, also built upon this Saoshyant thing would be that when we Do the Decision to declare ourselves the Saoshyant-visit the sistant holy site, we will be able to reform our current Mazdayan/Zoroastrian faith with a 50% Reduction similar to what the Prophet perk in learning gives. (none of this basque - Era zaharrak faith where we got to choose between 3 SET options but couldnt guide it properly. I Loved the intention, for us as the player to choose the Path this faith would take)
We get to choose between 3 Unique Tenets ONLY available if you reform one of the Zoroastrian faiths with this Decision along with a Unique Faith Icon.
Each of these 3 Tenets would have a Focus & theme similar to what the Era Zaharrak faith did (Fundamentalist (Warmonger), Righteous(Sanctity of nature & Pluralist(Syncretism) )
My suggestion for the customization of the faith through decision would be:
* We are able to get the HoF title for free if we want(The rest should still have piety cost, but maybe a 50% Reduction like the Prophet perk gives )
IF we choose the HoF title it should have a unique title,maybe Saoshyant? (unless that is stupid.thought it would be nice flavour)
*Can only pick one of the 3 unique Tenets & the Tenet comes with a requirement of either HoF type or Religious attitude.
Suggestion would be a warlike one, a Zoroastrian version of warmonger (They can already pick that - or at least unique art for it.)
A sanctity of nature kind - one. a unique Cthonic Redoubts/volcanic veneration could be fitting (Mountain buffs due to Fire Temples & Holy mountains ) ,
Zoroastrians revere the light, which is good and the essence of all creation through the one God (Ahura Mazda) who is the upholder of it (light and good). The antithesis of light and good is darkness which is malevolent and bad and under the influence of Angra Maiynu (Ahriman).
So Zoroastrians use fire (light) as a path or channel to God (Ahura Mazda) when they pray, just like how the Christians hold the cross and how the Muslims turn to Kaaba.
Zoroastrians worship God (Ahura Mazda) through fire when they pray, which they do five times a day. In ancient times they used to perform their rituals outside before the sun or the direct sunlight. But they also lit fires to worship him smoother and that’s why the âtashgâh/آتشگاه (fire temples) were created. Inside the fire temples there is always an eternal fire lit so that the goodness and virtues of God doesn’t die out and the darkness and evil of Ahriman prevails and forsakes mankind and the world.
?
Third choice an improved version of Islamic syncretism? - Basically the Zoroastrians being the "bigger man" and when they are in power they will be more pluralistic.
When i wrote these, i had a really cool idea for Fire temples. Similar to the Megalith Constructions, where the Zoroastrians are able to construct fire temples. I'd prefer something that would scale with the game or stay good throughout like a proper special building or duchy ( level 1,2,3) im not certain of the requirement. Either these could replace the generic temple building you construct in holy sites & special building areas with their own specific buffs perhaps based on the 3 "stances" you took.
(this would not be a decision you got to take until u are at an empire level anyway, so it being a strong early game start building like Megaliths doesnt make sense) A requirement could be it had to be made in a temple holding on a mountain & you could only hold 2 (like a duchy building - and count as special building so u cant go overboard) - Fire temple would also come with buffs similar to the volcanic veneration for desert mountains.
the land of Sistan is of great importance so that its mythical, historical, geographical places and people related to it have been frequently cited. Given the importance of the issue and due to the lack of comprehensive research in this area, by using analytical-descriptive method, the present article attempts to examine the religious and mythological issues related to the land of Sistan covered in Zoroastrian texts. The results of the study show that the Scythians and the Kayanians were associated with this region. Also, since it is the birthplace of Zoroaster, it was the place of the spread and propagation of Zoroastrianism and the emergence of the eschatological saviors. In addition, in these texts, several holy mountains, holy fire temples, holy seas and holy rivers in Sistan are mentioned that show its privileged position in Zoroastrian religion.
Or perhaps a Unique Men at Arms innovation or Tradition linked with Fire temple building. (So like the new wind furnace building, a special building only available to Zoroastrians - Fire temple.
If you went for a fanatic warrior faith - you get unique men at arms that are basically a holy order led by you & they are trained & live at the temple -like shaolin warrior monks.
Unique MaA suggestion.
Attack -Shock: Catapracts(Unique name heavy cav) drylands,plain,desert mountain buff?(Caucasian wolves have mountain buff)
Mobility/Adaptability- Horse Archers
Arch types- Defenders: Archers/Infantry to defend Fire Temples - Buffs in hill,Desert mountain etc.
So ONE MORE XD Is to use the tour system & Grand Activity mechanic coming soon and implement it into the decision so that we literally have to travel to the lake and perform the Rebirth/go into the lake.
Remember all of this is not reward/buff in one go, its all seperate rewards/buffs from a decision. And this is purely "flavour fantasy"/Power fantasy, Zoroastrian making a comeback & dominating again is already a stretch /alt history but this is where the game shines at least for me. This would not impact anyone at all besides the player who does the decision and it is a single player game- The AI would NEVER be able to do this decision ever. So balancing this is not a problem compared to any other existing faith.
The reason why i suggest Maa / unique Tenets and such for doing a decision is because that feels awesome in comparison to loading up a game and the culture is already super strong(this post doubles as a flavour pack suggestion). Yes the vikings are strong, but the really cool part is forming Kingdom of Mann & the isles or The Varangian Capital of the Rus. (oh and its a thread about decisions ) & again this doesnt need to be as balanced as base vikings due to it being locked behind decision & balances can be made.
Maybe a 'restore the Rashidun Caliphate' decision rather than a general re-unite Islam? Roughly re-creating the political/religious system under Umar/Uthman
Requirements:
- something like owning all Sunni holy sites, being the only Islamic empire-tier realm, etc
Effects:
- Switch to a form of elective succession heavily weighted towards piety (maybe only paragons of virtue eligible?) and maybe to a lesser extent character ability
- Reflecting how state revenue was directed towards social programs, disable the court grandeur system, boost popular opinion and development in all counties
- Massive boost to all Sunni Muslim opinion.
- Heavy penalties to vassal opinion for landing/hiring relatives, nominating relatives as successors (reflecting anger and instability that were produced by nepotism under Uthman and the opposition to the institution of hereditary Ummayad rule that contributed to the 2nd Fitna)
- Prestige generation halved, piety generation doubled (making becoming a paragon and thus an eligible candidate a bit easier!)
And with a corresponding decision to do a Mu'awiya and return to hereditary monarchy. Maybe a Shi'a version that requires the ruler to be a Sayyid? Might be questionable how fun it would be to play in such a scenario in a dynasty-based game though...maybe for players wanting a challenge?
In India, a decision for Jain rulers with sufficient piety to follow in the footsteps of Chandragupta Maurya and abdicate to become an ascetic monk might be nice.
Sticking with the Mauryas, and possibly overlapping too much with the become Chakravartin decision, a 'Manifest the Ashoka Dhamma' for Buddhist pacifists controlling a large enough chunk of India, leading to:
- Offensive wars and hunt activity disabled, along with convert religion task for other eastern faiths.
- Building costs reduced and development increased in all territories.
- Massive opinion penalty from glory hound vassals and vassals with hunter lifestyle traits.
- Increase in vassalisation acceptance chance
- again, perhaps increased piety generation, reduced prestige generation
I do like the idea of a Chola - related decision, but yes, only after a map expansion I think.
And I absolutely love the idea of having your saintly Buddhist predecessors mummified as court artifacts! (Maybe dead paragons of virtue could produce saintly relic aftifacts in Christendom too?)
Maybe a 'restore the Rashidun Caliphate' decision rather than a general re-unite Islam? Roughly re-creating the political/religious system under Umar/Uthman
I think the idea is cool in spirit, but it just doesn't really make sense in historical context. The really clear demarkated distinction between the Rashidun/Umayyad/Abbasid caliphates is something that was done after the fact; to people at the time it was just "the Caliphate". It was the same institution that had existed since Umar and Uthman's times.
I think giving an elective succession to the Caliph does make sense, though, the problem was that iirc it can't actually work for the Head of Faith title as well.
And I absolutely love the idea of having your saintly Buddhist predecessors mummified as court artifacts! (Maybe dead paragons of virtue could produce saintly relic aftifacts in Christendom too?)
You might be on to something here - there's a Buddhist tradition of finding pearl-like sariras in the cremated remains of virtuous monks. If you have dynasty members with virtuous traits who ordain as monks or nuns, it would be neat to (as the dynast or house head) receive an event where a sarira relic is discovered and put in your treasury when they pass.
Knowledge of Hellenism exists through the Greek classics. Kemetism is essentially lost knowledge throughout the CK3 time frame. There is literally no one alive who can read hieroglyphics and if there are any surviving writings on the subject, they are likely written by Greeks and ridiculing the Egyptians (general ridicule is the most common kind of Greek writing about foreign civilisations).
Reviving either is an absurdity and just because the developers indulged one absurdity doesn't mean they should do it again. lol
There needs to be something referencing the rise of Muslim branches during the game, especially that of the Shia (but also Qarmatians and even non Muslim faiths like the Druze).
Something to do with the Hashinshins/Order of the Assassins and their founding
A decision to take the title of Caliph akin to what the Caliphate of Cordoba did, aka essentially establishing a second rival Caliphate
There should be something for a Muslim player who manages to conquer Paris/Rome/Constantinople to celebrate the momentous achievement
There should probably be something for an Iranian dynasty who manages to overthrow the Arab/Turkic yoke and reestablish native rule to the region, independent of whether or not they are Zoroastrian
If Crusades are ever fixed, there should be a decision for a prominent Muslim ruler to appoint themselves as defender of the faith (or something similar) and maybe even allow him to call Great Holy Wars (Jihad) unto any non-Muslims in the area, basically to turn into Saladin.
And the Abbasid should be in a precipitous decline at game start and be in an uphill battle to restore its stability. The Anarchy at Samarra was ongoing in 867 and the Zanj Rebellion was about to occur, two crisis which would plunge the Caliphate into chaos and allow places like Egypt, Iran, the Maghreb, and the Caucasus to break free. I know CK3 has nothing like the crisis system of EU4 since the devs like CK3 to be more sandbox-y, but the 867 start date could seriously improve if something like it was added. Perhaps the struggle system could be used to emulate the Caliphate's restoration/dissolution, I've seen the RICE mod do some nifty things with it.
My CK RP machinations extend and incorporate population movements and displacements far beyond the timeline of CK3. Before ancient times and, in fact, prehistoric. That's my problem. So, yes, the Siddi link would probably boil down to a Medieval Muslim "slave DLC" in CK3.
Just a thought, but now Perisa DLC is confirmed, maybe an "Anathematise the Council of Ephesus"/"Christ-Bearer not God-Bearer"/"Nestorius was right" decision for a Persian ruler to take after making the Church of the East the national religion and then subjugating and converting Constantinople.
On reflection, I think making the Zoroastrian flight to Gujarat into a decision clicked by an Indian ruler is actually the most boring way to implement this. Instead, I'd propose making it an event chain that can fire after a certain number of Zoroastrian counties in Iran are converted. An Indian ruler (weighted to be in Gujarat but not 100% guaranteed to be there) would then get the event of the Zoroastrian escapees arriving. The event target ruler has a choice to:
a) accept them and their religion but require them to adopt the local language (the historical option, which makes the new arrivals spawn as a hybrid Parsi culture),
b) allow them to come as is, which makes them spawn as Persian and perhaps gives extra county development and tech progress to the host region/culture, but creates tensions that result in popular opinion maluses and other effects, or
c) send them on their way, in which case they move on and another ruler in the region gets the chance to take them in.
I'll go one step further: a system like this could be used for a bunch of different groups. Jews, Zoroastrians, tribesmen running away from a bigger tribe... there's a lot of potential!
It has always irked me that there is a decision to Dismantle the Papacy with some pretty harsh anti-Christian language, but there is no similar way to dismantle the Caliphate, or raze The Kabaa, or burn down a holy Muslim city, or even an acknowledgement when you capture and defile Muslim holy sites like Medina.
So yeah, I agree, there should be some extra-European events and decisions for Christian conquerors.
It has always irked me that there is a decision to Dismantle the Papacy with some pretty harsh anti-Christian language, but there is no similar way to dismantle the Caliphate, or raze The Kabaa, or burn down a holy Muslim city, or even an acknowledgement when you capture and defile Muslim holy sites like Medina.
So yeah, I agree, there should be some extra-European events and decisions for Christian conquerors.
Actually, Muslims did do at least some proselytizing in India unrelated to conquest. The main example I know of is the Fatimids, who ironically in almost exactly 1066 began a major effort to expand the Isma'ili da'wah in Gujarat under the direction of a Yemeni named Lamak ibn Malik. As a result, India has several Isma'ili communities to this day, even though no Isma'ili dynasty (that I'm aware of) ever came to power in the subcontinent. Moreover, Gujarat was entirely outside of Muslim rule in the 11th century.
I don't have any concrete examples of similar activity among Sunnis, or even non-Isma'ili Shi'is -- the Isma'ilis seem to have placed a special emphasis on missionary activity, and I'm not sure if other branches ever did anything top-down the way it is in Crusader Kings. But I know that Muslim merchants were present throughout the Indian Ocean, and I bet there were cases of Muslim mystics spreading the faith outside the dar al-Islam. So, long story short, I think you can justify at least informal missionary activity for even non-Isma'ili Muslims, and ruler-sponsored missionaries for Isma'ilis.
Although, the whole "no alcohol" policy should probably make it difficult for Muslim missionaries to gain any Russian converts
Considering the new Persian DLC, there's a ton of room for new stuff on this front, so here are some suggestions:
- Being able to found the Order of Assassins: I don't like the way Holy Orders work at the moment, but I think it's probably the best way to represent the Order. It could probably work something like the Jomsvikings for Persian Shiite rulers in Iran.
- A decision that folds the Empire of Persia into the Empire of Arabia/Vice Versa: Would probably be flavoured around the idea of the Abbasids at last fully integrating Persia into their administration, following a full scale reassertion of Caliphal authority.
- Claim the tile of Padishah: The title of Shahanshah/Padishah was used to draw continuity from a continuous line of Persian emperors in a similar fashion to the use of Caesar/Czar or "Emperor" in Europe, and I think the same should be applied to Persia
- Usurping the Sunni Caliphate: I think I'd want the requirements around it to be a little strenuous - so that not just anyone who vassalizes and takes control of the Caliph can just yoink the Caliphal title when it's convenient - but I think the game should definitely have this. The title of Caliph was one that got usurped a fair bit, so it's not like it's historically unprecedented.
- Something Mamluk Related: I'm not sure entirely how it would look, but considering the amount of importance they had in this time period and in this region, it's frankly a little ridiculous that they just don't exist in the game at the moment
- Sacking Baghdad: There's even a line about it in the House of Wisdom monument. I think it'd be pretty funny to actually let us do it and demolish the House of Wisdom. Would probably need a corresponding "Restore the House of Wisdom" decision.
