Any idea how to deal with OP AI divisions in late game

[Simon_9732495]

Not sure whether this is proven but if it is true, then i understood this part of what he said

"So if you defend with 20 width divisions that means you begin trying to reinforce the battle at 75% strength rather than 50% if you had 40 width divisions. "

Because in the same time frame (1 hr), if the enemy attack is ferocious that 1 40 width division will be dislodged, then that same amount of attack might not be able to deorg 2 20 width divisions. At most only 1 20 width will lose organisation and retreat, hence the battle is at 75% strength and reinforcement will come...

If you want to read more on this I did some testing lately:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/testing-defense-with-infantry-against-tanks.1382215/

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/best-defensive-template.1380809/

In short:
Defense increases with batallions added to a template. Organisation is an average value. A 2width template with only 1 inf batallion has 60 org. A 20w inf has 60 org. A 40w inf has 60org. (Buffed and debuffed by serveral other things)
If you fill the 80 combat with with 8 10 width division they can have 8*60 = 480 org, 2 40w only have 120 org. That means against the same attacks (after defense!) the 8 10w hold 4 times longer. But the 40w has a lot more defense, so less attacks get through.
There are a lot more aspects like equipment and manpower loss, deorging the attacker, ... In the threads linked above there are some very good answers that explain some of that.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

That means a 40w division on the offense is like getting two 20w to actually attack the same enemy division. So you focus your attacks better on the offense and knock enemy divisions out of the battle quicker. You actually finish one off instead of spreading the soft attack about.

But if 1 40w division has the same soft attack as two 20w, doesn't it make no difference? I still don't understand the spreading out part.

 

[Col.Klink]

But if 1 40w division has the same soft attack as two 20w, doesn't it make no difference? I still don't understand the spreading out part.

Each division you attack with might target a separate division. So attacking with fewer larger divisions will force them to focus more attacks on fewer enemy divisions.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Because the way combat works the attacker can roll enough soft attack damage to cause 160 org damage all that damage is applied to only ONE of the defending divisions.

Should it be TWO of the defending divisions. There are two 40-width divisions. So one 40 width division vs one 20 width division?

 

[Mister Analyst]

But if 1 40w division has the same soft attack as two 20w, doesn't it make no difference? I still don't understand the spreading out part.

@EliteWehrmacht ,

Have you watched these 2 Reman's Paradox YouTube HOI4 videos? Even though these videos are over 2 years old, they still do a great job of explaining how HOI4 combat works and how 40 width divisions can be superior to 20 width divisions.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Each division you attack with might target a separate division. So attacking with fewer larger divisions will force them to focus more attacks on fewer enemy divisions.

So having 40 width infantry to attack is like a pointy thrust. You are being offensive-oriented, trying to break a few weak divisions in the line. Whereas 20 width infantry spread the attack out. More like a club to hit multiple targets at the same time -- brunt force.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

@EliteWehrmacht ,

Have you watched these 2 Reman's Paradox YouTube HOI4 videos? Even though these videos are over 2 years old, they still do a great job of explaining how HOI4 combat works and how 40 width divisions can be superior to 20 width divisions.

I have watched the first one. And sorry for that previous question! I did not read in full.

Edit: This question
"But if 1 40w division has the same soft attack as two 20w, doesn't it make no difference? I still don't understand the spreading out part."

Please also take a look at my other question
"But if 1 40w division has the same soft attack as two 20w, doesn't it make no difference? I still don't understand the spreading out part. "
I desperately want to understand this!

 

[Col.Klink]

So having 40 width infantry to attack is like a pointy thrust. You are being offensive-oriented, trying to break a few weak divisions in the line. Whereas 20 width infantry spread the attack out. More like a club to hit multiple targets at the same time -- brunt force.

That is a perfect way of describing it!

Imagine a sword. You cut with the edge, but you try to block with the flat. In both cases you are using the same amount of material but to cut you want the force to be concentrated. To prevent a cut you want the force to be spread out.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

That is a perfect way of describing it!

Imagine a sword. You cut with the edge, but you try to block with the flat. In both cases you are using the same amount of material but to cut you want the force to be concentrated. To prevent a cut you want the force to be spread out.

Thanks! have you looked at my other question?

Because the way combat works the attacker can roll enough soft attack damage to cause 160 org damage all that damage is applied to only ONE of the defending divisions.

Should it be TWO of the defending divisions. There are two 40-width divisions. So one 40 width division vs one 20 width division?

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Also, how does defense work? Does this mean that most of soft attack will miss since the enemy has higher defense than mine individually? Or not, because my combined attacks added up to 451+325 = 776 (which is more than 557)?

Edit: I may need to rewatch Reman's video again...

 

[Major Malfunction]

Try Expert AI mod, it tweaks AI templates so they could be more manageable for players.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Also, how does defense work? Does this mean that most of soft attack will miss since the enemy has higher defense than mine individually? Or not, because my combined attacks added up to 451+325 = 776 (which is more than 557)?

You may want to read this:
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_battle

In 2 vs. 1 the damages of the attackers add up.