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DesertSnow

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Hello everyone!

I tried out the HoI3 demo when it came out. The game ran ridiculously slow on my computer (partly because of the absence of multi-core support issue), so I decided to refrain from buying it. Despite this, during the first year after release, I used to browse the posts in the game's forum and I remember reading a lot of things about game speed, AI problems and issues with the supply system.

I would like to give the game another try, and I don't think I am alone. I believe that it would be in paradox's best interest to create a new demo, a demo showing us the game in it's current state.

If this request is "out of the question", feel free to immediately lock this thread. Thanks for taking the time to read through this.
 

comsubpac

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too much work since neither semper fi nor for the motherland are stand alone expansions. so i would say it is very unlikely especially after so much time and considering that the devs are occupied with non hoi3 projects for many month to come.
 

Klausewitz

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I would like a new demo too.
I burned myself pretty bad when buying divine wind without demo and since the Iron Cross fiasco i really do not want to buy any paradox game before seeing a working demo.
 

Yasko

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I tried out the HoI3 demo when it came out. The game ran ridiculously slow on my computer (partly because of the absence of multi-core support issue), so I decided to refrain from buying it. Despite this, during the first year after release, I used to browse the posts in the game's forum and I remember reading a lot of things about game speed, AI problems and issues with the supply system.

I also didnt buy HOIII or Semper Fi and waited partly due to it being slow but mainly becouse the game felt so sandbox. Semper Fi and FtM seems to have done wonders for this game. My suggestion is to buy the game, just wait for an offer at Gamersgate, i got both expansions+the game for 16€!. The best deal i have ever done. Right now i am invading Soviet and only using three panzerarmies manually while the AI handles the infantry armies and it works very well.
 

comsubpac

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comsubpac, don't you think the developers can speak for themselves? I think there have been more stupid proposals here on the forum.

he can propose whatever he want but what does that mean for my answer? isn't it true that the devs are working on other projects? isn't it true that it is very unlikely that we will see a demo after so much time considering that no expansion has ever received a demo?
seriously, don't you have bigger problems to attend to?
 

Link Strife

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I think the idea of creating a demo is a great one. The 'HOI3 Collection' is just about to be released (in a week or two) and now would have been the perfect time to do so. I understand that the developpers are busy; they are always busy if they are not on holidays! But maintaining the appeal of an existing game is certainly as important as working on an upcoming project. Many players were turned off when HOI3 came out. The game was, in my opinion, a mess. I am a veteran of HOI and HOI2 and I pre-purchased HOI3 as soon as I could when it was first advertised. I was so frustrated by it that it has been collecting dust on my shelf amost since it was released. I am finally giving it a second chance as I have waited for the multitude of patches and the two expansion packs. I think many gamers were frustrated as well and have just abandonned the game. Now that the game has come a long way (although it still has a ways to go to be considered a polished game, but more on that in another post I suppose), it would be a good time to try to entice them back. I have seen the 55 sec video that accompanies the release of HOI3 Collection. While it is nice, PI certainly didn't break the bank producing it. A full blown demo would have been a lot better to get a host of new players interested in the game.
 

unmerged(47962)

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Paradox wore out their welcome to my wallet a long time ago. Essentially, I refuse to buy anything from them unless its been patched at least 4 times and out for at least 2 years. Tired of wasting my money. Bargain bin or no buy.

Demos help, frankly are critical for a publisher of this size.

Certainly with their track record.... Critical
 

happyman40

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Paradox wore out their welcome to my wallet a long time ago. Essentially, I refuse to buy anything from them unless its been patched at least 4 times and out for at least 2 years. Tired of wasting my money. Bargain bin or no buy.

Demos help, frankly are critical for a publisher of this size.

Certainly with their track record.... Critical

Thankyou for sharing but apparently it's not critical for everyone. There would come a point in any products life cycle that the investment in further marketing / promotional efforts would not sufficiently improve sales to justify the expense.

Take Windows 7 relative to windows 3.1. I am assuming you are running something newer than 3.1. Did you ask for a demo before purchasing Given MS's track record of bugs that is? :glare:

MS actively gave the OS to corporations with free onsite engineers to implement solutions just to get the product in the door. Can you get a windows demo now? Why would MS bother; any increase in sales would be negligible. And no one would be able to suggest any MS product is or will ever be without bugs. But it does a damn good job generally and is better than it's predecessor.

As is FTM - better than it's predecessor that is; it incorporates Multi-CPU support and a host of other improvements - not the least being the much requested "multi-unit select/de-select " ability. I would pay the $19.95 just for that!

Which all goes to say that the game delivers 90+% of it's promise and is actively being improved and tweaked, not to mention the modding community is worth it's weight in gold. I mean you actually get more game than is just in the developers code. This is a very tangible resource and many a game will thrive or die on the extent to which it's fan base is both motivated, and empowered to, create new content.

Most people that own HOI or SF should be able to determine from previous use whether the game improvement (which you could read exactly from the patch notes) and their inherent like / dislikes of the game are going to be worth the purchase "For them" without a demo

As for any new user, I would find it hard to believe that the difference between FTM and Vanilla would be sufficient to sway most people - that is if you're not sure the game is for you based on 1.4 then it's hardly likely it will be in FTM.
 

podcat

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the chance of me doing a demo isn't zero, but pretty low as we are very busy with other things atm. I agree the original demo serves more to scare people from the game than to show how awesome it is in its current state however. I tend to suggest people watch "lets play" videos of FTM online and make up their mind based on that rather than try the demo which isnt exactly ideal :(
 

Baltasar

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@podcat, wouldn't it be possible to "just" do a scenario as a demo? Or does that entail a similar (or even more) workload?
 

Alex_brunius

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I think a good solution could be to include a standalone demo within the budget of the next expansion (granted there is one planned).

That way it will serve both to show off new content and the current state off the game. The risk would be that people think the expansion is a standalone game too (which normal Paradox expansions isn't).

However there is nothing saying an expansion cannot be released as a standalone game too such as HoI2 Doomsday was. It's certainly is a good way to reduce complexity and reinstall/installation hazzle when the amount of expansions start piling up (like with EU3).
 

Chaplain

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he can propose whatever he want but what does that mean for my answer? isn't it true that the devs are working on other projects? isn't it true that it is very unlikely that we will see a demo after so much time considering that no expansion has ever received a demo?
seriously, don't you have bigger problems to attend to?

Isn't it true that you speak unofficially, without knowing anything for sure? So ... why offer an answer when you're not sure ... ?
 

comsubpac

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Isn't it true that you speak unofficially, without knowing anything for sure? So ... why offer an answer when you're not sure ... ?

well, i know that they all are working on other projects and i know that they never did so before and i know that it has been a long time since the release (and i know that all for sure) and apparently i was right so whats your problem?
 

unmerged(47962)

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Take Windows 7 relative to windows 3.1. I am assuming you are running something newer than 3.1. Did you ask for a demo before purchasing Given MS's track record of bugs that is? :glare:.

Yes, actually I do - and they do, quite willingly.

MS actively gave the OS to corporations with free onsite engineers to implement solutions just to get the product in the door. Can you get a windows demo now? Why would MS bother; any increase in sales would be negligible. And no one would be able to suggest any MS product is or will ever be without bugs. But it does a damn good job generally and is better than it's predecessor.

Yes, actually you can - 30 day trial - still. I'll leave it up to you to figure it out. MS spends tens of millions annually on advertising their products.. even though they really don't need to. Why? Exposure, keeping the name fresh.. which is as important to a fortune 500 company as it is to a small, niche game developer.

As is FTM - better than it's predecessor that is; it incorporates Multi-CPU support and a host of other improvements - not the least being the much requested "multi-unit select/de-select " ability. I would pay the $19.95 just for that!

This is pretty much the same rampant fanboi-ism that's been around since the beginning. I'm glad you're willing to pay $20 for patch, I'm sure Paraduck is too. I'll wait till it's in the "please god, someone buy me" section of Steam.

various attempts to rationalize your waste of money

Somewhere, there is a happy medium between --

wow, EUII has been out for HOW LONG and they're still putting out updates?! sweet!

and

we're hiring an outside QC firm to fully beta test an obscure, niche market game



Sorry, but no matter how you cut it and how you try to rationalize it.. having to pay for patches for a broken product is wrong.

As expected, HOI3 was a trainwreck at launch -- years later, its still a trainwreck.
 

happyman40

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Yes, actually I do - and they do, quite willingly.



Yes, actually you can - 30 day trial - still. I'll leave it up to you to figure it out. MS spends tens of millions annually on advertising their products.. even though they really don't need to. Why? Exposure, keeping the name fresh.. which is as important to a fortune 500 company as it is to a small, niche game developer.



This is pretty much the same rampant fanboi-ism that's been around since the beginning. I'm glad you're willing to pay $20 for patch, I'm sure Paraduck is too. I'll wait till it's in the "please god, someone buy me" section of Steam.



Somewhere, there is a happy medium between --

wow, EUII has been out for HOW LONG and they're still putting out updates?! sweet!

and

we're hiring an outside QC firm to fully beta test an obscure, niche market game



Sorry, but no matter how you cut it and how you try to rationalize it.. having to pay for patches for a broken product is wrong.

As expected, HOI3 was a trainwreck at launch -- years later, its still a trainwreck.

A trainwreck?!?! Oh gawd - please. Why don't you just say "My dad is bigger than your dad" and make a real point!

Kerrik do you think you might be exaggerating just a little bit perhaps? Or do you actually think making such ludicrous statements aids your credibility?

Firstly though, a 30 day use of windows is not actually the same as demo - it works until activated for 30 days (90 days for some server products) So no, They don't actually make a demo version of windows. Yes you can get demo's of their applications, that's true.

The point you were making was HOI3 has had "bugs" so they should make a demo to show it has been improved due to their track record? As I pointed out apparently (because they and others don't have a demo) it's not critical and plenty of software gets purchased by people from companies that, just like paradox, have had to fix issues in their software.

It might be beneficial, but not critical, to make a demo, but like others have pointed out, while not impossible, to wrap FTM into a demo install would require a probably inordinate amount of investment for the expected return.

Having said that, a single install would be helpful for both convenience and troubleshooting purposes.

Essentially calling someone a fan boi is short for "I can't be bothered to discuss the facts so I'll just dismiss everything you said by lumping you in a group of blind irrational HOI3 lovers". And your Exaggeration of calling game a "trainwreck" is just code for "I want to sound authoritative without actually making any valid points at all in any way shape or form"

I am not blind or irrational, and neither are lots of other customers who are very happy to pay for what is, without any real doubt an exceptionally good strategy game. To call something a trainwreck in my mind conjures up notions of it being, in all aspects mostly broken OR you are using a very unusual or skewed measuring stick to judge it by.

Either way, to be taken at all seriously you would actually need to frame your comments with some justification otherwise you are just another glass half empty big noting whiner that has noting better to do than post baseless exaggerated comments.
 

Yasko

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You wont see long term problems in the Demo anyway. I remember tried the first demo and reading the forums here later. There were lots of problems like WWII not occuring, Switzerland becomeng communits despite entire Euorope being Nazi etc. etc. Hell, we even learned from the developers(and their fanbois) that it was a "world simulator" not a WWII game back in those days... :p You cant see those problems in a demo.

The best way is not the demo, just chek the comments made in the forums. Go for HOI3+SF+FtM, its worth buying now...
 

podcat

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As expected, HOI3 was a trainwreck at launch -- years later, its still a trainwreck.

If you are still hanging out on a forum for a game released in summer 2009 so it cant be that bad of a trainwreck? I think SF needed some more work but I'm pretty happy with FTM, there is no major issue like supply was in SF, but of course there are still many improvements that could be made. As for the whole "I dont want to pay for patches" standpoint, I am perfectly fine with people voting with their wallet and if some people didnt think it was worth it I take that as a suggestion that we need to focus more on fresh features than general improvements for future expansions.

@podcat, wouldn't it be possible to "just" do a scenario as a demo? Or does that entail a similar (or even more) workload?

I dont think a scenario would show off all that is cool about the game, I prefer locking to certain countries (like germany) and some event/time rule to keep you from getting the whole thing while still being able to try out all the different stuff. In scenarios its all about combat and HoI3 is about much more than that.

The best way is not the demo, just chek the comments made in the forums. Go for HOI3+SF+FtM, its worth buying now...

for people who havent got the game I'd suggest the collection coming on the 22nd. http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/hearts-of-iron-iii-collection

Good AARs are also a fine way to show what the game is about to people who haven't played it. I got friends interested in HoI after having them read robw963's polish AAR for example: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...KOPOLSKA-Rise-of-the-White-Eagle-A-Polish-AAR
 

SAS

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I never thought of this before but I could see how new players thinking about the game and trying the demo would be wary of purchasing it. I mean the game is 100% better now then it was when first released, and I thought it was a good game then.