Anti-air question

[unmerged(12502)]

Suppse I conquer a province that has AA guns, occupy that province, and then get attacked there. If I counter attack with air units, do the province's AA guns fire at my planes?

Playing as Germany, I have control of many Russian territories with AA gun batteries. The Soviets have tried to kick me out many times, sometimes with very large armies. I often use tactical bombers to even the odds. But my planes seem to get shot down amazingly fast. This does not seem to happen in provinces with no AA. I don't think that the Soviet AI is building a lot of AA brigades, though I could be wrong.

What gives?

 

[J.J.E.]

The nation that controls the province gets the bonus from AA guns.

The reason why you lose a lot of planes might be because the Soviet army is huge, your planes are technologically inferior, or the Russians have researched a lot of AA techs which applies to infantry. Look at the combat efficiency. You should be able to tell what's going on/going wrong if you do.

 

[CGS]

The weather penalties can be HUGE. For example, the storms are the worst. I thinks it is -1000 to your efficience, or something like that. Anyway, you will fight at 1%. The other penalties are much less severe but can still be a problem, and a big one.

Another problem can be that some armies have more AA brigades, I think. I've seen the same planes against armies of the same number of divisions, with the same weather, that sometimes receive little damage and sometimes a lot. I suppose that the AA brigades are related to that, as long as there were not AA guns.

 

[BarMonger]

IIRC, AA guns fire at all planes engaged in combat above the province, friend or foe.

 

[unmerged(15618)]

IIRC, AA guns fire at all planes engaged in combat above the province, friend or foe.

correct , so if you use "defensive bombing" dont build AA in your front provinces

 

[unmerged(27034)]

The nation that controls the province gets the bonus from AA guns.

The reason why you lose a lot of planes might be because the Soviet army is huge, your planes are technologically inferior, or the Russians have researched a lot of AA techs which applies to infantry. Look at the combat efficiency. You should be able to tell what's going on/going wrong if you do.

I can't say for sure, but I believe this to be wrong.

I seem to recall that it was either
AA fires on every planes flying above the province.
AA fires on the "attacker".

It should be easy to test though. Just compare the differences between bombing in provinces with lots and no AA.

 

[CGS]

It would be very strange, AA guns controlled by you shooting at your own planes. The soldiers in the AA guns should be shot!

 

[J.J.E.]

IIRC, AA guns fire at all planes engaged in combat above the province, friend or foe.

Of course you're right. Why didn't I rememer that? We have had long discussions about this in numerous threads. Must have been fochused more on the EURO football matches than what I was writing...

Anyway, stupid way for the AA guns to work!!!

 

[Darth Tracid]

It would be very strange, AA guns controlled by you shooting at your own planes. The soldiers in the AA guns should be shot!

AAA in WWII is a chancy thing. The germans used to set a "Flak Perimeter" in air combat zones, into which their planes were not allowed to cross, or be shot at. (Soviet Cold war doctrine was the same. Inside a SAM-Envelope of, for instance, armoured columns with SP SAM´s, any plane would be fired upon on detection, friend or foe)....

 

[CGS]

Then the ones that should be shot are the pilots of the planes.
There should be some kind of coordination between the planes and the AA guns: when your bombers enter a zone, the AA guns stop firing, and when the guns start firing, the planes withdrawn. Maybe there should be some doctrine to represent this. For example: "Teaching your pilots not to enter the flak perimeters doctrine" :rofl:

 

[BarMonger]

Must have been fochused more on the EURO football matches than what I was writing...

The first interesting match started 42 minutes, dont tell me you were watching the Croatia farce

 

[unmerged(3221)]

You can also get these friendly AA fire from the province AA when you bomb a defeated and retreating unit. I normally try to bomb the retreating enemy to death because the retreating enemy army often gets temporary control of the province that you have taken. Even if have inf sitting there and not moving, you can still get the message that you have lost control of the province. Then the next hour your standing units will retake the province, but what if you have planes based there?

To prevent this problem, I routinely try to bomb the retreating units to death. But then the province AA in the province that I own starts shooting at my own planes. So you have to decide what's the greater problem: retreating enemy units staying alive and grabbing one hour control of your province and endangering your airplanes OR taking lots of losses from your own planes.

So there's an additional bug or problem to this friendly fire problem.

 

[cdat]

Friendly fire happens. Live with it.

 

[Darth Tracid]

Quoting Murphy´s laws of combat:

"The only thing in war more accurate than incoming fire is incoming friendly fire."

"When in doubt, empty the magazine."

 

[unmerged(12502)]

I could understand it if both friendly AND enemy planes were overhead. But in the cases I'm talking about, my planes are the ONLY planes in the air. Can't the guys manning the guns lay off in those circumstances?

And I don't think it's simply true that AA guns always fire at all planes. If enemy planes fly over one of my territories with AA, and there is no combat in that territory, then the guns fire. If my planes fly over such a territory and no combat results, then the guns do fire. If there is combat, however, the guns always fire.

 

[CGS]

That AA guns firing at your planes when they are alone is a bug, and should be fixed. If not, I will have to find some people to shoot them.

 

[unmerged(25977)]

Even today friendly aircraft must stay within certain corridors when flying near the front. Anything outside those corridors is a target. With our advanced technology today we still have incidents of friendly fire. It's reasonable that, given the state of technology and poor communications/coordination that existed in WWII, friendly fire would not be unheard of, particularly in the heat of a battle and at night/poor weather with bombs dropping all around. AA firing at friendly aircraft adds a little of the unpredictability of war; HOWEVER, it shouldn't happen every time I engage my planes in combat.