Another "Pagans too strong, please nerf" thread

[vicbus]

One of the charms of playing a Paradox game is that, although proposed to be historical simulations, their complex mechanics more often than not interact in ways that tend to favor ahistorical and even ludicrous outcomes. Many of them become notorious and sometimes memey, going from BBB France to the Mongols failing to get out of the steppes in CK2.

I would like to propose a little bit of fun forecasting on the community's part to imagine some of the ways that could
(and probably would) appear in Imperator after launch. My personal guesses would be:

1- AI Rome never expanding much outside Italy.
2- Some Gallic faction blobbing too fast and unifying Gaul early in the game.
3- Maurya blobbing into the steppes.

What are yours?

 

[Gurkhal]

Seleucids becoming a total power house blob that overwhelms the world by itself

 

[Denkt]

Seleucids becoming a total power house blob that overwhelms the world by itself

They are already the second most powerful country at the start and if they can unite the other diadochi they are even more powerful than at the start.

Blobing as a tribe don't seems that hard as you start generally near other tribes and your powerbase are in tribesmen who are happy and don't demote which mean you can quickly conquer alot of land and have a massive powerbase.

 

[vipic]

But.... Tribesmen dont give much in the way of money or manpower and no research, so I think that you will need craptons of tribesmen to even be kind of competitive. Plus if you conquer civilized lands all the freedmen there will be mad. We just dont know enough about how tribes work at this point.

Honestly my fear is the opposite. With the new Provence system the ai wont be able to blob fast enough to keep up with me and after 100 years the game will be far to easy.

Edit: Slow was not the right word changed to easy.

 

[Denkt]

Happiness is very important because it have direct influence on pop productivity so happy tribesmen is better than unhappy freemen who are not productive and also add unrest which can lead to civil war. Also the videos that show tribes show that tribes seems to get alot of bonuses towards tribesmen making them better than they are for civilized nations who do not get these bonuses.

It is not free to promote tribesmen into other pops and if you want to expand quickly you probably better of focusing on having good tribesmen.

 

[vipic]

Can you link me the videos showing tribes play? Ive only seen Rome and Egypt so far (I thought thats all there was).

 

[Traum77]

Can you link me the videos showing tribes play? Ive only seen Rome and Egypt so far (I thought thats all there was).

The YouTubers had a variety of different gameplay mechanics on display (not a full playthrough, but some good overview videos). I like Quill18's

 

[Sarog]

100% it's going to be out of control Maurya.

 

[Denkt]

100% it's going to be out of control Maurya.

They are the strongest at the start but that don't mean they are in the best situation when it comes to further expansion.

 

[Lord Canterbury]

100% it's going to be out of control Maurya.

Actually, I think it will be 100% out of control Maurya and Phrygia memes.

 

[Truewhit]

But everyone except zorostrians and Israelites are pagan...

 

[vicbus]

They are the strongest at the start but that don't mean they are in the best situation when it comes to further expansion.

It's certainly wild especulation on my part due to my lack of knowledge to the map, but I think there might actually be a possibility of them advancing through Bactria and the Parni and colonizing the steppes. A solid Seleucid blob would certainly help to limit their expansion possibilities in Persia.

 

[Denkt]

It's certainly wild especulation on my part due to my lack of knowledge to the map, but I think there might actually be a possibility of them advancing through Bactria and the Parni and colonizing the steppes. A solid Seleucid blob would certainly help to limit their expansion possibilities in Persia.

However these states are probably quite strong so it may not be that easy to expand into them and as a large country you have to manage aggressive expansion and characters carefully so even if the Seleucid is not in your way don't mean the road is clear.

 

[Roxas15]

1- AI Rome never expanding much outside Italy.
2- Some Gallic faction blobbing too fast and unifying Gaul early in the game.
3- Maurya blobbing into the steppes.

What are yours?

so you basically want the outcome to be the same...as in our timeline?
i love the games the most when things happen which you even couldnt imagine. i like when there is alot of possible outcomes, sadly eu4 enforces certain outcomes. ck2 was way more fun when it comes to alternative history. i hope imperator: rome will do the same.

your 3rd point is 100% legit though. i hate when byzantine empire blobs into steppes in ck2.

 

[Denkt]

so you basically want the outcome to be the same...as in our timeline?
i love the games the most when things happen which you even couldnt imagine. i like when there is alot of possible outcomes, sadly eu4 enforces certain outcomes. ck2 was way more fun when it comes to alternative history. i hope imperator: rome will do the same.

your 3rd point is 100% legit though. i hate when byzantine empire blobs into steppes in ck2.

You mean like Seleucid capture Inda while Cassander annex Phrygia and Egypt, Rome is annexed by Boi and Carthage take over all coastlne it can find up to Scandinavia.

 

[When Horse Archers Attack]

tribals 2stronk, they keep annihilating me in arausio

 

[Will Steel]

3- Maurya blobbing into the steppes.

I hope this gets avoided. The only Indian empire to ever go for the steppes was Kushana Empire (one of the five great powers of the imperial era). Coincidentally it was also the only Indian empire that ever attempted to attack China directly, marching into Tarim region.

In EU4, Mughals or Mewar, whoever reunites northern India, starts pushing into useless Timurid steppe lands and then into Siberia instead of conquering the rest of India or even Persia/Burma. I really hope this does not happen in Imperator.

 

[commander_todd]

In EU4, Mughals or Mewar, whoever reunites northern India, starts pushing into useless Timurid steppe lands and then into Siberia instead of conquering the rest of India or even Persia/Burma. I really hope this does not happen in Imperator.

That will happen. Like in every Paradox game.

 

[Denkt]

I think that Maurya neighbours are underestimated quite a bit. Yes they are powerful but they are powerful in an area in which everyone is powerful. Bactria for example may look small but they are similar to Rome or maybe Carthage in Power.

The five most powerful countries at the start date as far as I know:

1. Maurya Empire, I don't know how powerful they are but they are the most powerful
2. Seleucid Empire, most powerful of the diadochi and also have a friendship between its leader and the leader of Egypt with Egypt. It have alot of Manpower and wealth as well as being very large
3. Egypt, It have the best research of probably all countries in the game, is very rich and very centralized Power base which make it easy to take advantages of resources and buildings
4. Phrygia, while it have more Manpower than Egypt, thats about the only advantage it have while having poor research and is less wealthy than Egypt and Seleucid empire. It is also enemy of all other diadochi.
5. Carthage, it probably start with the largest navy and is a large nation but it is not as wealthy or powerful as many of the diadochi at the start.

 

[Adonnus]

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of 2 key features surrounding how blobbing would operate were revolts which are massively toned down from EUIV and are now basically replaced by disloyalty and civil wars/independence wars, and the fact that there is no warscore limit to what you can conquer, meaning you can annex Seleucids in a single war. I can imagine based on those that it would be easy to create a mega empire early on.