Another government thread..

[unmerged(7924)]

It's not going to be a problem to find a match to RM, but claiming of the throne is a bit worse...

Mord, am I the only one that has noticed that it is "Mordhiem" and not "Mordheim"?

 

[unmerged(16514)]

Originally posted by Mormegil
Mord, am I the only one that has noticed that it is "Mordhiem" and not "Mordheim"?

Seemingly

 

[Gathenhielm]

Originally posted by Mormegil
It's not going to be a problem to find a match to RM, but claiming of the throne is a bit worse...

We can change the entry in the text.csv file to do not push this button

 

[Kyran]

we should slap a sign on you which says 'do not talk to this man' lol j/k

 

[Kyran]

Gathenhielm, Belarus should be Absolutism and i would suggest that Facism be changed to Absolutism. Any gripes out this?

 

[unmerged(9563)]

Well I thought of this last night after you told me, but abolustism is also a really centralized monarchy.
Authoritanism instead or something?
I dunno.
But, I don't think it should be fascism. Fascism is a subset of either one of those two, and its extreme nationalistic Absolutism / Authoritanism.

 

[Kyran]

True, since the definition of absolutism is almost the same as autocracy. Authoritarian is a bit broader referring to regimes.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

Thought I've made the list now, I'm willing to change the name to Dictatorship or whatever. However, it'll have to fit with the graphic.

 

[unmerged(17859)]

We should take a vote on which one to do.

1:
Religions=Economies
DP=Politics

2:
Religions=Politics
DP=Economies

3:
A mix of both for both

Currently I guess we are sliding along with 3, and if we do either 2 or 3 i would highly recommend Mord's Plutocracy->Aristocracy be Proletariat->Bourgeois

Although, does a Stalinist bureaucracy qualify as a bourgeoisie in its own? Perhaps oligarchy is better, but either way this is a fine progression of the slider into modern times.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

We're taking nr. 2

Oh, and TheRealSeraphim, are you the old one?

 

[Kyran]

2 for me

However, it'll have to fit with the graphic.

The giant fist does justice to anything related to facism meaning yes, it will mormegil. Absolutism will be put in since i'm working on fixing all the 11 May files for MDS.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

It's all fine then. I didn't say Absolutism didn't fit in.

 

[unmerged(17859)]

2, eh? Was this discussed somewhere else? I would recommend:

Catholic - Fascism with democratic characteristics
Counter reform Catholic - Fascism
Protestant - Parliamentary Democracy
Reformed - Republic
Orthodox - Landowners' Democracy
Sunni Islam - Secular Monarchy
Shiite Islam - Spiritual Monarchy
Confucianism -
Hinduism -
Buddhism - Direct Democracy
Paganism - Turmoil


Plutocracy vs. Aristocracy
Sharing vs. Property

Decentralization vs. Centralization
Free Market vs. Planned Economy

Narrowmindedness vs. Innovativeness
Bureaucracy vs. Unhindered Production

Free Trade vs. Mercantilism
Foreign Trade vs. Protectionism

Defensive vs. Offensive
Same

Naval vs. Land
Same

Free Subjects vs. Serfdom
Democratized Labor vs. Directed Labor

Quantity vs. Quality
Same



As always VERY open to change.

Proletariat vs. Bourgeoisie/Oligarchy seemed a brilliant idea. But it is not! There is nothing else to put there except maybe in FreeTrade/Mercantilism because all facets of the economy--bureaucratization, democratization of labor, property rights, etc., would all vary depending on the proletariat vs. bourgeoisie slider. Or, perhaps, I am wrong and it would really be better to just do that and come up with some bogus ideas for the other ones.

Also, internationalism in the world proletarian movement is something that is hard to implement. I think that events should be made to implement it! How will the workers work together if they are competing as rival nations? I can not imagine two workers' states fighting.

And also, can't Fascism come of Democracy?

Oh, and what's the difference between a parliamentary democracy and a republic?

 

[unmerged(7924)]

Plutocracy vs. Aristocracy
Sharing vs. Property

Ok

Decentralization vs. Centralization
Free Market vs. Planned Economy

Agree

Narrowmindedness vs. Innovativeness
Bureaucracy vs. Unhindered Production

Ok

Free Trade vs. Mercantilism
Foreign Trade vs. Protectionism

Agree

Defensive vs. Offensive
Same

Agree

Naval vs. Land
Same

Agree

Free Subjects vs. Serfdom
Democratized Labor vs. Directed Labor

I think we had serfdom as policestate once, and FS the opposite. Is that too unreal?

Quantity vs. Quality
Same

Agree

 

[unmerged(16514)]

Originally posted by TheRealSeraphim

Catholic - Fascism with democratic characteristics
Counter reform Catholic - Fascism
Protestant - Parliamentary Democracy
Reformed - Republic
Orthodox - Landowners' Democracy
Sunni Islam - Secular Monarchy
Shiite Islam - Spiritual Monarchy
Confucianism -
Hinduism -
Buddhism - Direct Democracy
Paganism - Turmoil

No room for socialism/communism? I would say:

Catholic - Moderate Socialism (Modern China, Cuba)
CRC - Radical Socialism (USSR, Vietnam, North Korea)
Protestant - Parliamentary Democracy (UK, Australia)
Reformed - Federal Republic (USA, Germany)
Orthodox - Authoritarianism (Belarus, Zimbabewae)
Sunni - Islamic Secularist (Egypt, Iraq)
Shiite - Islamic Fundamentalist (Iran)
Confucianism - ?
Hinduism - ?
Buddhism - ?
Paganism - Anarchy

I think that with the current split in between the West and the Islamic blocks, which no matter how hard you argue does exist and only seems to be growing wider, is essential to implement in game. Also, if a resurgent USSR is to be modelled, the communism vs democracy is also vital.

Plutocracy vs. Aristocracy
Sharing vs. Property

Wel, it is an adequate compromise for now...

Decentralization vs. Centralization
Free Market vs. Planned Economy

Seems sound, but in EU2 there is no real advantage to becoming decentalised is there? However, in the real world there is plenty to say in the favour of Free Markets, unless you hold to the view that we are not really in a free market economy at the moment. Maybe the West is currently around the 5-7 area, if you assume that a 0 on this scale means REAL free market i.e. no economic rules or government interference what so ever. (Think Thatcherism/Reganism and multiply by 10)

Narrowmindedness vs. Innovativeness
Bureaucracy vs. Unhindered Production

Yes, seems perfect.

Free Trade vs. Mercantilism
Foreign Trade vs. Protectionism

Defensive vs. Offensive
Same

Naval vs. Land
Same

No brainer, yes.

Free Subjects vs. Serfdom
Democratized Labor vs. Directed Labor

I think this is more appropriate than the previously argued Free vs Police State.

Quantity vs. Quality
Same

Of course.

Oh, and what's the difference between a parliamentary democracy and a republic?

This site does a good job of explaining the differences. Essentialy, in a Democracy the majority always rules, whilst in a Republic the constitution is organised as such that the majority is restrained.

 

[unmerged(9563)]

The centralization slider is very unbalanced that in EU2 Regular there is no reason at all to go decentralized. So, the choices for it also have to be a no brainer, and I think the past has shown that command economies tend to have a little less luck than free market ones. However, it could work the other way around. Massive bureaucracies would cut down on production efficiency, as would directed research for scientists that may not be specialists in the field. (Tech penalty).

 

[Kyran]

Catholic - Moderate Socialism (Modern China, Cuba)
CRC - Radical Socialism (USSR, Vietnam, North Korea)
Protestant - Parliamentary Democracy (UK, Australia)
Reformed - Federal Republic (USA, Germany)
Orthodox - Republic (France)
Sunni - Islamic Secularist (Egypt, Iraq)
Shiite - Islamic Fundamentalist (Iran)
Confucianism - Authoritarianism (Belarus, Zimbabewae)
Hinduism - Absolute Monarchy?
Buddhism - Transitional?
Paganism - Anarchy

 

[unmerged(7924)]

Have any of you read the anouncements?
I made the list there Definite, and it will only have small name changes... Such as Facism to Dictatorship or whatever. (It must fit the graphics. We can't use the Democrazy shield as Communism etc.)
That's the only way to do it, every single person in the crew have different wishes. It's impossible to decide something that way, this discussion has been going on for almost a year...

However, DP sliders have to be fixed.

 

[Kyran]

My guess is your not too artisticly inclined in graphics programs. I could easily switch the shields around and add some things if needed.

 

[unmerged(17859)]

No room for socialism/communism? I would say

I thought that the Religions were the Political Systems, and thus a Communist country would be a Parliamentary Democracy. Socialism is an economic choice, which I thought would be decided by sliders, so that Communism would be the two together.

I think we had serfdom as policestate once, and FS the opposite. Is that too unreal?

That was when DP was Politics (System 1). Now that DP is economics (System 2), that doesnt fit.


Although personally I don't agree with System 2 at all, because Economics have always been the reasons for war; Politics mean nothing--Democracies have fought and hated one another since their ideological inception; Monarchies even more so.

Or was there a misunderstanding, and System 3 is the choice???

If system 3 is the choice, that would be tough, because you could have a "Radical Socialism" with +10 property rights, +10 free market, etc.

You guys are right about decentralization vs. centralization, though it needs to be flipped with something else.


EDIT: By the way Mord thanks for clearing up the Republic vs. Democracy there, I get it now. And it is important.

Although, I would not call North Korea or Vietnam radical. An improvement over what they got rid of, but IMHO the only radical one was the USSR from 1917-1923, strangled in its cradle from further radicalism by the Soviet Intervention.