Post-scarcity doesn't exist though. Resources only get more scarce as districts max out.
Another Economy Deep Dive (aka Machine Empires aren't horrible)
- Thread starter Gamma Knife
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Machines can be great it they get there.+15% and - 15% grown trait's working, that bug make me crying
While an interesting analysis, it only really deals with economic efficiency. What really matters is how good the various types of empires are at increasing the strength of their economy, their economic growth. This is the area where gestalts, and especially machines, suffer.
Because normal empires have ruler pops they're going to run into amenity problems much later, and even when they do they have a lot of tools to address the issue. They can throw consumer goods at the problem, with the decision, they can build holo-theatres, gene clinics, or housing buildings. Gestalts run out of amenities quicker and have to go to maintenance drones to get more, which are inefficient.
Machines, however, face even more problems. A major offender is that their pop growth is expensive. Organic empires get 3 growth per planet for free, machines have to pay 9 minerals per planet to get 3 growth. Ouch. That's a lot less minerals for constructing buildings or producing alloys and research.
At least hives get extra pop growth to make up for this. I can't say whether hives' bonuses are enough to make them better than normal empires or not, since I haven't experimented much with them, but it's definitely within the realm of possibility. Machines get perfect habitability, as well as pseudo-immortal leaders, which doesn't come into play until the mid-game. Their habitability bonus is nice, but sadly not enough to make up for their shortcomings.
Because normal empires have ruler pops they're going to run into amenity problems much later, and even when they do they have a lot of tools to address the issue. They can throw consumer goods at the problem, with the decision, they can build holo-theatres, gene clinics, or housing buildings. Gestalts run out of amenities quicker and have to go to maintenance drones to get more, which are inefficient.
Machines, however, face even more problems. A major offender is that their pop growth is expensive. Organic empires get 3 growth per planet for free, machines have to pay 9 minerals per planet to get 3 growth. Ouch. That's a lot less minerals for constructing buildings or producing alloys and research.
At least hives get extra pop growth to make up for this. I can't say whether hives' bonuses are enough to make them better than normal empires or not, since I haven't experimented much with them, but it's definitely within the realm of possibility. Machines get perfect habitability, as well as pseudo-immortal leaders, which doesn't come into play until the mid-game. Their habitability bonus is nice, but sadly not enough to make up for their shortcomings.
At which point did you factor in the costs of making a new Pop for ME ? They don't get em for free like all other Empires do.
And as it was already stated, the point is not, that ME are bad once they are established, but that the process of getting there is worse compared to all others.
And as it was already stated, the point is not, that ME are bad once they are established, but that the process of getting there is worse compared to all others.
But storage and fleet cap are finite.
Put another way, how many BB's worth of maintenance am I going to get for the CGs UA is consuming when I'm already well over fleet cap? I'll take the faster research and unity ambitions.
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You may have potentially forgotten to take into account deviancy as well. Gestalt empires will always produce about 0.9 deviancy, which is another type of upkeep that requires sentinel posts on hive mind world with large populations. It's notable enough to takeaway another building slot, pretty much. Also must remember that non-rogue servitor empires have an equivilant of maximum stability that removes around 10% production compared to regular empires.
Just build more research labs instead? Or are you talking some hypothetical point at which every building slot on every planet is a lab and there's still CGs to spare for more pops researching through Utopian Abundance? I don't know that such a point exists. I'd expect it would require something fairly ridiculous like 20+ repeatable techs to improve resource production to feed that. If that's the only situation in which Utopian Abundance is a valid choice then it shouldn't be in the game IMO. UA is clearly poised as a perk of Egalitarian societies since it's on the race creation screen, so I'd expect it to be useful in some more reasonable situations.
But remember, Egalitarian is for lazy players who don't want to waste their time moving unemployed pops to planets where they could free up another building slot. It's about satisficing, not perfect efficiency.
Edit: A lot of players are going to have political goals which won't have been satisfied by the time running UA looks like a good idea. Being able to run UA and never think about employment again is a reward for getting your economy to that point.
Edit: A lot of players are going to have political goals which won't have been satisfied by the time running UA looks like a good idea. Being able to run UA and never think about employment again is a reward for getting your economy to that point.
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This is where things get weird.
My slaving empires need precinct houses and Psi Corps sometimes to keep crime down, but many of my egalitarian empires never need any of those buildings unless a crime megacorp is giving me a headache. It's easy to keep happiness high enough (and have enforcers just from the capital) to keep crime minimal.
But the gestalt empires will need at least one, possibly more than one, deviancy building on every damn planet. It's like the gestalt minds are worse at getting populations to cooperate than free will empires.
