Anomalies need to be reworked

[scaper12123]

The anomaly mechanic in Stellaris right now is a very interesting, but only at the beginning of the game. After you've examined all the anomalies around your sector of space, there isn't very much to discover because all the other players or AI have discovered all the anomalies around you.

I feel like anomalies need to have more of a presence throughout the game rather than just at the beginning. I've been thinking of how to do it and I thought I would just make a thread contemplating this issue.

One thought I had on the matter was a revision to surveying the galaxy, wherein getting survery information from other nations or from federations wouldn't actually give you the survey info: it would give you general info on resources. you'd have to survey the systems yourself and then you'd continue to get anomalies.

 

[DAKOTA567]

Another idea is to have some more anomalies that randomly pop out of nowhere, like if civvie guys stumbled upon something, etc. Thus negating the need to rely on surveying altogether for the later game.

Likewise I'd also like to see the existing anomaly events expanded, since there are quite a few that almost seem to be part of a quest type event that ends up being just the one shot. More things with learning about all those dead civilisations we find on toxic/barren worlds, the ones from the murals, etc.

 

[Tim_Ward]

Another idea is to have some more anomalies that randomly pop out of nowhere, like if civvie guys stumbled upon something, etc. Thus negating the need to rely on surveying altogether for the later game.

Likewise I'd also like to see the existing anomaly events expanded, since there are quite a few that almost seem to be part of a quest type event that ends up being just the one shot. More things with learning about all those dead civilisations we find on toxic/barren worlds, the ones from the murals, etc.

But most anomalies don't actually do anything interesting, and are designed to be encountered very early game.

I don't think "You found [cryptic idea we won't ever develop] in a [place] - 100 engineering research and 100 energy for you, sunshine" is going to be thrilling when you're brining down more than that each month.

Frankly, I can barely bring myself to give a shit about those events when it's the start of the game and getting 100 research is actually useful. But 2300, they'd be "fuck off, pop-up" territory

If they were more like their Star Trek inspirations and were actually little story chains with potentially negative outcomes, on the other hand...

 

[scaper12123]

But most anomalies don't actually do anything interesting, and are designed to be encountered very early game.

I don't think "You found [cryptic idea we won't ever develop] in a [place] - 100 engineering research and 100 energy for you, sunshine" is going to be thrilling when you're brining down more than that each month.

Frankly, I can barely bring myself to give a **** about those events when it's the start of the game and getting 100 research is actually useful. But 2300, they'd be "**** off, pop-up" territory

If they were more like their Star Trek inspirations and were actually little story chains with potentially negative outcomes, on the other hand...

That's the thing, though. There's always more to discover when we're exploring space. What we think we understand now might be completely incorrect, which we could discover in the far distant future. Plus the anomalies we discover in the late game don't necessarily have to come from the set of simple anomalies we get in the beginning of the game. It could end up being a way to come up with miniature crises, like you suggest.

 

[Simoom]

There are a lot of anomalies that give unique & powerful empire modifiers. For example, "The Tree" (+5% happiness, or +50 year leader lifespan), "Adrift" (+15% evasion, +15% sublight speed), "Strength From Small Places" (+5% energy).

The problem with the current anomaly system is that because everything is luck-based, there's a chance you will miss out on some (or even all!) of these unique bonuses, and once all the systems have been scanned, you are officially out of luck.

I do think "regular" anomalies you discover through survey should be periodically generated by your colonists and whatnot, similar to the way a lot of special events currently are already (precursor events, subterranean civilization, etc.). The frequency would be low enough that it doesn't create a big impact on the game, but allows the player to continue to get some benefit out of it (as well as to obtain unique bonuses).

One way this could be implemented is via addition of a new science building or Spaceport research module, that perhaps conduct continuing "research" on the planet it is built on, and each month such a building/module had a small chance to generate an anomaly. A big empire with many planets would therefore benefit from this since they could build many of these and have a higher chance to generate anomalies each month.

 

[Milten]

Another idea is to have some more anomalies that randomly pop out of nowhere, like if civvie guys stumbled upon something, etc. Thus negating the need to rely on surveying altogether for the later game.

Closer to midgame we have dozens of colonies and stations in distant star systems this would be the most natural way to stumble upon something which was missed in initial surveys. But it would require different set of events, since missing some of current anomalies is possible only with dead-drunk science team.

 

[Wyrm]

One way could be to have a second layer of survey that is unlocked by mid-game technology. A new lab that you research that give the ability to scan down stellar bodies in an entirely different way (say quantum level) enabling more anomalies to be discovered in already surveyed systems.

It would also be interesting to have system-based anomalies in addition to the current planet-based ones.

Another thing that could be interesting is to give science ships an ability to stay in orbit of a planet to make use of its science output as a sort of mobile science station. This would be useful for the early game, letting you grab some extra science at the expense of slower surveying.

 

[artemis667]

The problem is that anomalies by design often add extra resources to entities, meaning if multple ships survey a system it creates a potentially serious balance issue depending on variables.

A better way than simply allowing rescanning is to have different 'depth' levels to analyse for anomalies. e.g. Atmospheric analysis, Surface to core analysis, and finally a 'comprehensive geological history' analysis.

I put some ideas together here in the suggestions area... think it could work quite well, actually, but it would take a bit of coding.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/anomaly-and-survey-rework.991549/

(edit: I haven't read all posts here, but I see some people have come up with similar ideas, too)

 

[Seelensturm]

The anomaly mechanic in Stellaris right now is a very interesting, but only at the beginning of the game. After you've examined all the anomalies around your sector of space, there isn't very much to discover because all the other players or AI have discovered all the anomalies around you.

In my game it is beyond 2300 and I still discover new anomalies everytime I conquer some planets half way through a large galaxy which was setup with the maximum number of AI empires. Everything being scanned already by dozens of empires is no issue as long as the territory was claimed by an empire early on because anomalies can only be discovered in neutral and your own space. For this reason I don't survey other empire's space before it becomes my own or neutral again (the latter can happen when frontier outposts are destroyed). I also never buy star charts and don't use auto-explore. Of course this weird system needs to be changed, but you can keep getting anomalies when you respect the mechanics.

 

[Wyrm]

Everything being scanned already by dozens of empires is no issue as long as the territory was claimed by an empire early on because anomalies can only be discovered in neutral and your own space.

I did not know that. If that is true, then auto-survey is a bad thing, since it will go survey any empire not having closed borders.
Though I'm almost certain I've had anomalies found on worlds belonging to other empires.

 

[artemis667]

I did not know that. If that is true, then auto-survey is a bad thing, since it will go survey any empire not having closed borders.
Though I'm almost certain I've had anomalies found on worlds belonging to other empires.

As far as I've been able to tell, and I have been quite observant, the game works very differently. Auto-survey is inefficient it's true, but whether you can discover an anomaly depends on one thing only : has another ship surveyed that entity. If it hasn't, you can discover an anomaly wherever it is. If it has, you can't.

Trading star charts just means you know where another AI has surveyed before you. You won't discover anomalies there whether you trade them or not.

There is one odd exception, if you conquer systems from an AI and destroy bases there, it seemingly does reset a flag of some kind on some entities and allows you to resurvey and potentially discover anomalies, but I haven't seen enough data to confirm what conditions allow this and what the real reason for it is.

 

[Seelensturm]

As far as I've been able to tell, and I have been quite observant, the game works very differently. Auto-survey is inefficient it's true, but whether you can discover an anomaly depends on one thing only : has another ship surveyed that entity. If it hasn't, you can discover an anomaly wherever it is. If it has, you can't.

Trading star charts just means you know where another AI has surveyed before you. You won't discover anomalies there whether you trade them or not.

There is one odd exception, if you conquer systems from an AI and destroy bases there, it seemingly does reset a flag of some kind on some entities and allows you to resurvey and potentially discover anomalies, but I haven't seen enough data to confirm what conditions allow this and what the real reason for it is.

Actual mechanics under the hood might be indeed different, my conclusions are from my own play experience and reading the forums and not from the actual code.
However, the conclusion is the same. Space in other empires will always be surveyed at least by the owner before you arrive there, so no anomalies for you to find until it might reset by conquest. If you survey regardless before conquest (or buy star charts), you will lose your chance to get anomalies. So don't survey inside other empires. I am not sure about this 'destroy bases to reset', this would need testing.

Trading star charts just means you know where another AI has surveyed before you. You won't discover anomalies there whether you trade them or not.

But trading star charts removes the ability to survey them after conquest, so it is still a bad thing if you value anomalies over your scientists' time.

 

[mike8472]

Actual mechanics under the hood might be indeed different, my conclusions are from my own play experience and reading the forums and not from the actual code.
However, the conclusion is the same. Space in other empires will always be surveyed at least by the owner before you arrive there, so no anomalies for you to find until it might reset by conquest. If you survey regardless before conquest (or buy star charts), you will lose your chance to get anomalies. So don't survey inside other empires. I am not sure about this 'destroy bases to reset', this would need testing.



But trading star charts removes the ability to survey them after conquest, so it is still a bad thing if you value anomalies over your scientists' time.

I have also found this. Long after everything should be surveye by the AI I find anomalies in there home system or close by, as I did not survey it prior or bu star charts. I don't normally swap charts unless I am in a big war and need to know where key resources are for the enemy. I like to discover most things myself slowly.

However most anomalies are not so rewarding late in mid game or late game, rewards don't tier unless you get the 5% boosts as mentioned earlier.

 

[artemis667]

That's all very counter-intuitive, though. And those reports aren't specific enough to work out exactly why those counter-intuitive results are occuring and what the mechanic explanation is. Hence I'm hoping for a balanced revamp of some kind.

 

[Emraldis]

I made a suggestion towards this a while back: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-in-systems-you-have-already-surveyed.987988/

 

[misterderp]

Just my 2 cents:

In the savefile planets that are surveyed get a flag (prevent_anomaly=yes).
Whom has surveyed the planet is saved as a list (surveyed_by=17, which would be appended with more empire ids if that particular planet would have been surveyed by multiple empires).
I only have experience with surveying after a full conquest and then getting anomalies (never after a partial conquest).

Given these observations my hypothesis is If an empire is full annexed that empires id is removed from the surveyed_by list, If only a single empire surveyed this system the prevent_anomaly flag will be removed and thus anomalies van be discovered again. However this only works if only a single empire has surveyed the system. What can explain the lack of consistency people seem to experience.

 

[DAKOTA567]

That's the thing, though. There's always more to discover when we're exploring space. What we think we understand now might be completely incorrect, which we could discover in the far distant future. Plus the anomalies we discover in the late game don't necessarily have to come from the set of simple anomalies we get in the beginning of the game. It could end up being a way to come up with miniature crises, like you suggest.

This.

Closer to midgame we have dozens of colonies and stations in distant star systems this would be the most natural way to stumble upon something which was missed in initial surveys. But it would require different set of events, since missing some of current anomalies is possible only with dead-drunk science team.

I agree, I perhaps should've been more specific as to say that they'd be different events, as opposed to the same things, but more story based ones and colony ones with planet modifiers like the underground civilisation event.

After all, who knows what might actually be on a planet that wouldn't be found with a sensor sweep and basic survey. I for one would definitely like more in-depth extinct race events that could be planet specific as opposed to the pre-cursor empire chains.

Indeed even more things with your own empire's vessels, such as searches for lost freighters, random distress signals, civilian ships encountering weird spatial phenomenon. But with more interesting development than simply the one shot anomalies that are normally encountered, more mini-story arcs.

 

[Cordane]

Endless Space 2 has Curiosities that are notices of interesting things (possibly) being on a given planet. A survey probe gets manually sent to each Curiosity to discover what it is - they can be loot, resources, events, etc. Some Curiosities can't be scanned until later technologies are gained, and the markers over each system show how many planets still have Curiosities to discover, but any empire with access to the system can scan and claim any rewards available to them. Survey probes get spent during surveys and refreshed over time, and some Curiosities end up being empty duds.

I could see a higher-level technology (possibly in place of the automated surveying) opening up a second tier of surveying opportunities, with system iconography on the galaxy map updating to show those systems that haven't had the second survey done. The higher level surveying would probably focus on a system-wide sweep on entering a system (i.e., science ship FTLs in and performs a single scan from the jump limit) for the basic info, but still having to approach each planet to deal with individual Anomalies.

 

[CocoCincinnati]

I wouldn't mind seeing the system expanded with more event chains, especially with the upcoming change in 1.5 where events can trigger to push the chain along if you run out of systems to survey. The main problem right now is that most of us have already seen all possible anomalies. That's not a gripe, you can't have an infinite number of these things so it is inevitable that if you play the game enough, you will eventually see everything, so please don't take that as a gripe. But if there were some event chains with different branches leading to different outcomes, then that would add some mystery back to the game without needing to come up with new anomalies.....just expanding on the existing ones.

 

[Secret Master]

The anomaly mechanic in Stellaris right now is a very interesting, but only at the beginning of the game. After you've examined all the anomalies around your sector of space, there isn't very much to discover because all the other players or AI have discovered all the anomalies around you.

Not if you refuse to trade star charts.

I got the Tree yesterday in space owned by a member of my federation.