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Llama_Guy

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As the title says. When I, as a non-Western nation a century or two into the game, want to reform but cannot because I find myself too advanced, I need to blink a few times. Why on Earth is it that I, an advanced and progressive empire, cannot reform and refine my ways of thinking (and more importantly, gain access to more advanced units) while the small pile of junk next to me still stuck in the Dark Ages gets to reform, giving better tech progression AND military and letting them eventually outprogress me?

I understand of course that you need to be sufficiently behind so you cannot westernize right away, but I'd rather see that limit go down, so while you start out needing to be 8 techs behind, as time goes by you'd only need 7 and 6 etc. techs and eventually you can westernize courtesy irrespective of tech level. Otherwise you can easily get a situation like the above paragraph, which more often than not results in me giving a random western neighbour the required tech, then westernizing and resetting the AI nation's tech.

Alternatively, and probably easier to do, provide less advanced tech groups with equally strong lategame units. Then, either they keep up with the West technologically and can get to use similarly powerful units, or they eventually fall back and realize the need to modernize their institutions (and if they fall back technologically, they also find themselves unable to use the advanced units, go figure).

Another thing about units, is that when you do westernize you get western-named and flavoured units regardless of who you are. It might just be me but recruiting Latin Hussars doesn't suit me as appropriate for Japan. Or the Ottomans. Or the Inca. Or.. well, you get the point. I'd like to keep units with at least somewhat appropriate regional flavour even after I do Westernize. Granted this isn't the largest of problems with the lategame infantry (named more for tactics) and cannons (named for cannon type) but it's still a thing.

Regardless, the unit names is less important; the issues with the Westernization mechanics is what i want to highlight here as very annoying to deal with.
 

Lakedaimon

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I think the basic idea is that if you are far ahead you consider your own tech good enough and don't feel the need to adopt the western type. However if you are far behind your nation can see clear benefit in adopting the western way and start doing so.
 

TheMeInTeam

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I never had this problem, but I also delays techs on purpose to westernize ASAP.

Early westernization to block vassal-based growth in India/Asia is terrible. Muslims and the like can usually manage just by spamming diplo ideas out, maybe building a few buildings if they have a good ruler.

Even hordes should put it off generally. It's too restrictive on the best areas to expand.
 

BlaqkSkai

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I think the basic idea is that if you are far ahead you consider your own tech good enough and don't feel the need to adopt the western type. However if you are far behind your nation can see clear benefit in adopting the western way and start doing so.

Yeah, I agree with Lakedaimon. If your nation thinks its technology is amazing it wouldn't be interested in drastically changing their way of life. If they know their technology is crap then they would be more willing. Making tech limit go down over time could make sense though. Might be too confusing though, and I don't really see any reason for a change.

As for the new units, it'd be nice if they had units packs for a westernized Japan and such, but it makes sense that they are named after the type of unit they are trying to imitate. Having nations create unique units seems to be beyond the scope of EU4.
 

quoms

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Getting 8 techs behind shouldn't be such a problem. Drop a bunch of DIP into your first idea group and wait for them to pull ahead in techs that don't matter; you're free to keep pace militarily if you have the monarch points.
 

Subcomandante

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Another thing about units, is that when you do westernize you get western-named and flavoured units regardless of who you are. It might just be me but recruiting Latin Hussars doesn't suit me as appropriate for Japan. Or the Ottomans. Or the Inca. Or.. well, you get the point. I'd like to keep units with at least somewhat appropriate regional flavour even after I do Westernize.

They're only called latin hussars as a stand in, they are just an equivalent type of soldier. Japanese horsemen who have a hussar like role, copied and locally adapted. They wear Japanese made clothing, weapons and hats, which are not exact copies.
 

Llama_Guy

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Totally aware of the general idea of "I am supreme so why should I care about adopting Western life? - hence my second (and self-proclaimed better) suggestion to fix the matter. Give non-Western tech groups equally advanced lategame units. It's ridiculous that I find myself as advanced as the Western nations but somehow my military units are inferior all the same, and it's also stupid that I have to adapt to the western way of life and society to gain their military tactics (or whatever meta it is that determines that some units are better than others). If I have the same tech level I should have access to the same units, simple as that.

Subcommandante: And yet before I reform as the Ottos f.ex. I can create Uhlans and Janissaries and whatnot. Why can I not keep unit names? I may adopt Western ideas but I'm still a Middle Eastern nation. Basically, even if I give my Janissaries better guns and tactics they are still Janissaries! A samurai with a gun is still a samurai. And so on.