Annoying Colinization bug

[unmerged(85200)]

I am Macedonia, I played for about 50 years, and realized that the Bosporan Kingdom had expanded huge. I wondered how this was possible. So I sat and watched. When they colonize a province, the base civilization is 70! And they grow from 1 Cit. 1 Fre. And 1 Sla. Incredibly fast. This is very annoying. Any help/opinions?

 

[SonofWinter]

I am Macedonia, I played for about 50 years, and realized that the Bosporan Kingdom had expanded huge. I wondered how this was possible. So I sat and watched. When they colonize a province, the base civilization is 70! And they grow from 1 Cit. 1 Fre. And 1 Sla. Incredibly fast. This is very annoying. Any help/opinions?

Yes, neither Macedonia nor Bosporeans should be able to colonize. And all the provinces in the north up there are way too high in civ rating. They all start at 60+.

 

[whosthebestcop]

Pays to be Greek in the game

 

[Airfixer]

I'm playing macedonia and I'm expanding like hell right now. I've colonised todays romania, bulgaria, most of the former Yugoslavia, some of ukraine (with a war with the bosporians), and Im now heading for hungary and slovakia.
So yes indeed, you can colonise very quickly, but then again, I think this game is quite dissappointing, and you havn't got much to do when you're not at war, so it's my hobby to colonise

 

[SonofWinter]

I'm playing macedonia and I'm expanding like hell right now. I've colonised todays romania, bulgaria, most of the former Yugoslavia, some of ukraine (with a war with the bosporians), and Im now heading for hungary and slovakia.
So yes indeed, you can colonise very quickly, but then again, I think this game is quite dissappointing, and you havn't got much to do when you're not at war, so it's my hobby to colonise

No, WE, can't colonize very fast, try it with Rome or Carthage and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Macedonnia and Bosporeans can colonize very fast. Check it out. Each game the three Greek minors are colonial powers. Masillia, Macedonnia and Bosporeans, yep, just like in real history. :rofl:

 

[Asmodeous]

Yes, neither Macedonia nor Bosporeans should be able to colonize. And all the provinces in the north up there are way too high in civ rating. They all start at 60+.

Why should they "not be able to colonize"?

I understand that having those empty provinces have a civ rating of 70% is bollux, but what is your reasoning that they shouldn't be able to colonize at all?

Me.

 

[TheLand]

I think those Black Sea provinces have very high Civ to reflect smallish Greek settlements already existing - ditto Saguntum in Spain.

I agree, however, that this produces ahistoric and fairly silly results and it is something which I addressed somewhere in the development of my mod and now SPQR...

Of course Paradox could sort this kind of behaviour out, but I suspect (looking at EU3) they won't do so.

 

[SonofWinter]

Why should they "not be able to colonize"?

I understand that having those empty provinces have a civ rating of 70% is bollux, but what is your reasoning that they shouldn't be able to colonize at all?

Me.

Because those provinces were full of people. Dangerous people. People who might kill you, rape your wife and sell your children into slavery, kind of people. The game should not allow some minor to do something they would never have been able to do in days of yore. Rome colonized, because it sent its legions, 10s of thousands of legionnaires to slaughter the native populations, in order to be able to colonize. So did Carthage.

Masillia, Bosporeans and Macedonnians wouldn't have dared to do the same, because they didn't have the population and the military resources to do this. Also, Masillia was under Roman control. The Romans didn't want to have war with the Gauls and Masillia wouldn't have been allowed to colonize for that reason, because Roman lives would have to be spent to pay for those acquisitions. Rome was willing to spend lives, but only if Rome could benefit from it, not its tributary.

 

[Asmodeous]

So then if those nations should never be able to accomplish anything, what's the point in even having them in the game in the first place?

Me.

 

[Swamp Rat]

Masillia, Bosporeans and Macedonnians wouldn't have dared to do the same, because they didn't have the population and the military resources to do this.

While i do agree that the colonization rate of the minors in the game is too high, it is not unrealistic to have them colonize at all. Remember all the Greek city states settling all over the Mediterranean? And the implication that the Romans only colonized in places where they had slaughtered the original population is just plain wrong. Massacres and mass deportations did occur of course, but mostly colonization occurred because there was a substantial population in the area already, and having a town full of Roman veterans or civilians that needed Roman garrisons nearby was a good way of securing it.

In the game i think that colonizations is also sometimes meant to simulate the slow build up of a small traders market that eventually grows into a city.

 

[whosthebestcop]

Because those provinces were full of people. Dangerous people. People who might kill you, rape your wife and sell your children into slavery, kind of people.

Damn where they setting colonies up in Detroit?

I agree that there seems to be some kind of higher civilization values at the northwestern side of the map. Perhaps someone needs to check these values against other city states and 1 province minors to see if this is balanced.

They should have the right to colonize but if they are starting out 20 civ points higher than everyone else something should be changed. However I have no idea what they are really starting out at since I did not look into this.

 

[Asmodeous]

Either that or lower civilization ratings in the empty provinces in the east. Either would be acceptable in my opinion. Or larger hordes.

Me.

 

[SonofWinter]

So then if those nations should never be able to accomplish anything, what's the point in even having them in the game in the first place?

Me.

My suggestion was that the nation needs 100-150 pops to colonize. This would mean, that if you are a minor, you need to conquer and slaughter your way to dominance and then you should colonize to your heart's content.

That way, Macedonia is not too far away from being able to do it and Bosporeans, need a little war or two, to get there, but it shouldn't just be available to everyone. This would also mean that we could up the Gaul civ numbers to 50 or so and if a player wants to conquer most of Gaul, he should be able to build an Empire of his own.

But that's just my suggestion.

 

[unmerged(85200)]

Has anyone though of a way to fix this?

In any case, the same bloody thing just happened to Macedon in a different game. I chose to be Massila, and started colonizing and annexing the Gauls. After about 200 years of this, I panned right on the map, and Macedon controlled all of Greece, North all the way past Daci, and to the East, they controlled northern Roman Provinces north east of Histri. Yes, Macedon, due to the colonization bug declared war on Rome twice, and won, twice.