Annoyed with constant changes

[chrism665]

I just want to say.. dude, can I just replay the game but under a different country, without having changes making the experience different EVERY time?? I've got a little over 700hrs logged and my experience over those have been extremely enjoyable but I've just gotten old on the continual efforts to nerf the game and prevent players from growing with pace.

I haven't played EU4 in a little over a month. Today I start a campaign as Venice for the first time and find that the latest changes basically wants you to wait 20 years after you annex a vassal or take a province to continue any kind of expansion. Even with +3 stability, 100 republic tradition, 0% war exhaustion, and 80% religious unity, with 5.00 friendly troops on a province... still unrest? OK so screw it I'll take the autonomy to lower unrest, but I am still seeing unrest across provinces unless things are perfect. I don't wan't to slooowly expand, I want to grow at the same pace (relative to country, ideas, etc) I am accustomed to doing in 15+ games. I annex a vassal and I get autonomy AND unrest? What the hell is the point of a vassal anymore? They barely provide income and take a relations slot.. useless! And manpower. When I first started off in EU4, manpower seemed unlimited, which I can understand why this has been reduced, but now I will go from 20k manpower to 0 just fighting off separatist rebels. Not only that but it will take 30 minutes of game time with the speed on 5/full to get to 90% again. I guess the hopes is that everyone will build Army buildings and spend Papal Influence on Manpower bonuses so they can afford the manpower to take on a province or two every 10 years.

I have liked the direction that development has gone to make players more careful and to prevent the snowballing effect that seemed a lot more common, but it's gotten to be too annoying. Has there ever been the thought that maybe someone wants to replay the game as a different country, but with the same environment he/she enjoyed in the last 3-5 games? I remember the first campaign I ever played (Tuscany). Man, if I ever wanted to replay that game to see how well I can best my effort as a brand new player.. it's not even the same game. It's like that was EU4 and this is EU4.5, with completely different alliances and rivals, events, game system.. everything.

I haven't even brought up the times (let us now shall we) when a major version upgrade comes along and kills all the time you spent in a game. I remember cruising toward what I was hoping was conquering all of Africa as Kongo when one day the game updates and my game was no longer playable for Ironman. Do you know how annoying the beginning of a game as Kongo is?!? I usually play on 4 or 5 for game speed but you put it on 5 and basically shut off your brain for a solid hour before you get to a point where the game starts to happen.

It's great to see a game where the developers are so active and I assume listen very well to feedback. Changes have generally been positive but it seems like the plan Paradox has in mind is for a player to replay the same country every time and see how things have changed, rather than play different countries to try something new.

This is more or less a rant. I can't think of anything intelligent or useful to give feedback on. I feel like its the culmination of changes from the start that have finally gotten to a point where Paradox developers are happy, because you can't blob as quickly. Or somehow I missed the memo that you can complete the Humanist idea group by taking on a mission in the opening years of the game. Maybe this is secretly an extremely long beta test that I was completely unaware of. FWIW I would pre-order EU5 if that's ever made.

 

[Dutchman251]

Just learn to play the game good, feed your vassals, crush rebellions, and use mercenaries (you should be easily able to do so as Venice)

 

[grommile]

I just want to say.. dude, can I just replay the game but under a different country, without having changes making the experience different EVERY time?? I've got a little over 700hrs logged and my experience over those have been extremely enjoyable but I've just gotten old on the continual efforts to nerf the game and prevent players from growing with pace.

Paradox use Steam's public beta system to make the old versions available. Library -> Europa Universalis IV -> Right click -> Properties -> Betas tab -> use the drop down to pick the version you want. (Currently available: 1.4.1, 1.5.1, 1.6.2, 1.7.3, 1.8.1, 1.9.2, 1.10.1, 1.11.4, and 1.12.2; when 1.14 comes out, 1.13.2 will become available via this route.)

I haven't played EU4 in a little over a month. Today I start a campaign as Venice for the first time and find that the latest changes basically wants you to wait 20 years after you annex a vassal or take a province to continue any kind of expansion. Even with +3 stability, 100 republic tradition, 0% war exhaustion, and 80% religious unity, with 5.00 friendly troops on a province... still unrest?

If you read the Unrest tooltip for those provinces, it'll tell you why the unrest is positive.

In this particular case, I can probably tell you why the unrest is positive: your newly annexed provinces are full of non-accepted foreigners who follow a false religion, who (a) don't like you anyway and (b) are degrading your Religious Unity.

When I first started off in EU4, manpower seemed unlimited, which I can understand why this has been reduced, but now I will go from 20k manpower to 0 just fighting off separatist rebels. Not only that but it will take 30 minutes of game time with the speed on 5/full to get to 90% again. I guess the hopes is that everyone will build Army buildings and spend Papal Influence on Manpower bonuses so they can afford the manpower to take on a province or two every 10 years.

As the poster above me says, mercenaries are a thing, and if you can't afford them as Venice, you're doing something wrong.

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

30 minutes for 10 years of peace?

I'm jealous!

 

[Vistariel]

Basically, the current meta of this game is such that you need to determine from the beginning how you are going to expand. The reason being that you must build to maximize the competitive advantages for that play style, because trying to be the best at everything will leave you being the best at nothing. Obviously picking then nation itself should inform this decision, as the national ideas and starting position will make that nation superior compared to others.

Here are the options of expansion:
Direct Militaristic Assumption
Diplomatic
Colonial
Tall (still not really fleshed out yet in the current meta, I'm hoping to see more options for inward-focused, tall nations).

It sounds like the method you are employing is direct militaristic--you war, you conquer, and you core the provinces yourself. Nations ideal for this expansion method are those such as Brandenburg, the Ottomans, Poland, etc. Pretty much any nation with the following types of ideas:

• Reduced Core-Creation Cost
• Tolerance Bonuses to Heretics/Heathens
• Reduced Aggressive Expansion
• Better Relations Over Time
• Culture Conversion Cost Reduction OR Culture Acceptance Level
• Reduced Unrest
• Reduced Years of Separatism
  
• Military Ideas - Discipline, Morale, Tradition, etc.

Games like these you want to open with Administrative, Military (your pick), and Humanist ideas. I recommend Offensive or Aristocratic ideas for first military, as Admin/Aristocratic gives a policy for better relations over time and reduced aggressive expansion (mil point), while humanist/offensive gives a policy for reduced unrest and years of separatism (adm point). Assuming you took offensive, provinces you take will have -3 unrest, -15 years of Separatism (leaving you with +7.5 unrest), no unrest due to intolerance (even if catholic, base intolerance of 0 for both heretics and heathens, assuming no decisions taken). If you took aristocratic you will have aggressive expansion malus decaying at 53% faster rate with only 90% AE, otherwise just a 33% increase to malus decay. Coring costs are only 65% with a claim. Administrative ideas gives you much better position to hire mercenaries and take loans, while offensive gives you much faster wars and stronger armies (though admittedly the morale bonus and leader maneuver from defensive is stronger than the discipline and shock/fire bonus early on).

So net province unrest will amount to 7.5 - 3 = 4.5 base unrest. Assuming you have full legitimacy you get another -2, and assuming you have +3 stability you have another -3. Tolerance due to true faith has a base of 3, so that is another -3 if the province follows the true faith. If the province is non-accepted culture it gives +2 unrest (1.5 if republic). The benefit to religious unity from humanism pretty much removes penalties due to this. The culture acceptance threshold is also greatly reduced, so early on (smaller nation) chances of accepting the culture are very high.

So if the province follows your religion, is an accepted culture, have full legitimacy, and +3 stability (assuming overextension is gone and war exhaustion is 0) you will have a province unrest value of:
4.5 - 2 - 3 - 3 = -3.5
If not your culture, then 4.5 + 2 - 2 - 3 - 3 = -1.5
If not your religion (just subtract whatever the tolerance level is) then 4.5 - 2 -3 - 0 = -0.5, if you have high tolerance for heretics or heathens due to national ideas, you can functionally not worry about converting provinces. Ottomans have a +3 tolerance of heathens with humanist ideas, and many german nations can have +2 or +3 tolerance of heretics. France can have full tolerance for heretics and heathens--even as a Catholic nation. If you have +3 tolerance of heretics or heathens they do not reduce religious unity.
If neither culture nor religion then your provincial unrest will be 4.5 + 2 - 2 - 3 = 1.5

So even if you have zero stability, if you took humanist and offensive ideas then your maximum provincial unrest will be 4.5. This means that rebellions will functionally not occur and you will not have to raise autonomy. If you get enough bonuses from your nation or have a theologian you can actually reduce autonomy from the get-go.

A really good fourth idea group is diplomatic, as it allows you to manage your neighbors and aggressive expansion better. The diplomatic/humanist policy is very strong, as it further reduces culture acceptance threshold and improves relations over time.

Anyhow, I hope this helps you understand that it is very possible to grow in this way without dying from rebellions.

 

[Rygel8472]

What the hell is the point of a vassal anymore?

Vassal's will join EVERY war you make, not just once every ten years. This is HUGELY valueable.

Also vassals can have cores that you can reclaim for good CB's.
They can also help reduce 'wants your province' malus against 'neighbours'.

As for not getting much money from your vassals, I believe it is possible to stack bonuses to take ALL of their income.... so either consider taking the ideas/policies that help this, or else it could just be that your vassals have land doesn't produce much income to pass on to you.

 

[Vistariel]

Vassal's will join EVERY war you make, not just once every ten years. This is HUGELY valueable.

Also vassals can have cores that you can reclaim for good CB's.
They can also help reduce 'wants your province' malus against 'neighbours'.

As for not getting much money from your vassals, I believe it is possible to stack bonuses to take ALL of their income.... so either consider taking the ideas/policies that help this, or else it could just be that your vassals have land doesn't produce much income to pass on to you.

Yes, and reclaiming vassal cores at 25% AE and 75% cost allows for the most rapid expansion possible without incurring coalitions. If you have influence ideas and a feudal monarchy government type you get 50% of their tax income, and the offensive/administrative policy gives an extra 50% for a total of 100%. Nations like France get a further bonus from NI, and then influence has random events that boost it temporarily. I have had over 100% in my France game. Vassals are an extremely valuable tool for expansion if you take the diplomatic route. There are other policies that increase it by 25% as well.