Announcing Clio : A new map for Victoria : Revolutions

[Sen. Vergueiro]

Uruguay

i think Montevideo should be kept strictly right along the coast, emphasizes more the internal dynamic between port and countryside that was a constant source of conflict in Uruguayan politics until at least the rise of Jose Battle y Ordonez.

The format I suggested was just to assure that the cities of Montevideu and Colonia wouldn't be in the same province, because during the Civil War (Guierra Grande 1836-51) Montivideu was isolated in colorados hands, while Colonia became virtually the Uruguayan Capital, with the blancos ruling the entire country.

 

[Sen. Vergueiro]

Well, before we start with other countries which I need to research a bit (Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador etc.), I'll suggest a map for Paraguay.

First, a quick historical background. A map with all changes in Paraguayan borders:

Based on that, I suggest for Paraguay something lieke this:

 

[OHgamer]

Here's my idea for Paraguay



Since the Gran Chaco is really low POP, and at times under Bolivian control, would make more sense to maximize the number of Paraguayan provinces east of the Rio Paraguay, so 5 to the east and 2 in the chaco, with a natural frontier formed almost completely by the Rio Verde (and a potential expansion area for Argentine player?)

Now for the smaller South American nations there is a good chance they may gain at least one more province, so if that in the end happens a third Chaco province might be more feasible.

 

[OHgamer]

And Bolivia



Here if there are extra province IDs I'll probably add at least one, in Tarija in the south. In base Victoria it is part of Chiquisaca/Sucre, but it would give bolivia a bit more strategic help if Tarija was separate.

 

[Sen. Vergueiro]

Here's my idea for Paraguay



Since the Gran Chaco is really low POP, and at times under Bolivian control, would make more sense to maximize the number of Paraguayan provinces east of the Rio Paraguay, so 5 to the east and 2 in the chaco, with a natural frontier formed almost completely by the Rio Verde (and a potential expansion area for Argentine player?)

Now for the smaller South American nations there is a good chance they may gain at least one more province, so if that in the end happens a third Chaco province might be more feasible.

No problem adding one more province east form Paraguay River. I wouldn't have anything to add if in the game there weren't 'states'. Sinc Paraguay before 1865 has more provinces in both sides from Parana River, there must be a state called 'Paraná' (so that small piece of land can be incorporated to Brazilian 'Paraná'. So there are three prvinces in that state, and after 1871/72 just one.
So I strongly support that Asunción should be a bit more larger, and that the red province should cover the entire border Brazil-Paraguay.

Like this:

For Bolivia... I can say nothing right now. I need to research a bit.

 

[OHgamer]

Peru



could also benefit from a couple more provinces up in the altiplano in particular

 

[OHgamer]

And Ecuador

 

[OHgamer]

No problem adding one more province east form Paraguay River. I wouldn't have anything to add if in the game there weren't 'states'. Sinc Paraguay before 1865 has more provinces in both sides from Parana River, there must be a state called 'Paraná' (so that small piece of land can be incorporated to Brazilian 'Paraná'. So there are three prvinces in that state, and after 1871/72 just one.
So I strongly support that Asunción should be a bit more larger, and that the red province should cover the entire border Brazil-Paraguay.

Like this:

For Bolivia... I can say nothing right now. I need to research a bit.

Actually we can work around the Parana issue by setting up in Paraguay's .inc file that its provinces are all part of one state but that in the province.csv file it would be listed as being part of Parana state and would revert to that state name when occupied by another nation. We do this a lot in VIP to help with industrialization or make administration for uncivs easier, so Paraguay would not necessarily have to have a Parana state separate from its basic Paraguay state.

And I'm not really liking the idea of having one province along the entire Paraguay-Brazil border, would make it very difficult to ensure Asuncion's defense from any future invasions from the east. having 3 provinces along the border will provide Asuncion better defense in that direction (there's not much you can do vs Argentina since Asuncion is right on the border).

 

[Tempelridderen]

there is a limit on the caribbean because the islands are so close together - will not be able to get them all in, but hope to split them up a bit more.

timor is already scheduled to be split - see post on P 1 about Islands to be included

Already have earmarked 4 extra provinces for the Philippines to better reflect the islands there.

As for the rest of Indonesia, still developing ideas. Would like at minimum to add Madura and Nias in, but beyond that still working out ideas.

Hello again.. Nias is a good idea, but maybe the whole chain of islands (Nias, Simeuleu, Siberut) should be made into a single province..

 

[OHgamer]

Hello again.. Nias is a good idea, but maybe the whole chain of islands (Nias, Simeuleu, Siberut) should be made into a single province..

that is in the end what it will likely be

 

[Tempelridderen]

that is in the end what it will likely be

Ok sounds good. I love islands, and was wondering about the following, could they be included? I guess some are too small and unimportant. But still...

-Shetland
-Hebrides (I think this is most likely, because it could include lots of islands, inner and outer Hebrides).
-Orkney
-Frisian islands
-Canada: Queen Charlotte Islands, Isle d'Anticosti
-Philippines: Panay, Negros, Celu, Bohol.

 

[OHgamer]

Ok sounds good. I love islands, and was wondering about the following, could they be included? I guess some are too small and unimportant. But still...

-Shetland
-Hebrides (I think this is most likely, because it could include lots of islands, inner and outer Hebrides).
-Orkney
-Frisian islands
-Canada: Queen Charlotte Islands, Isle d'Anticosti
-Philippines: Panay, Negros, Celu, Bohol.

Frisians, Queen Charlotte and Anticosti probably not - Prince Edward Island is in though

still have not 100% decided on the outer Scot islands, will depend on free tags left after first runthrough

as for the Philippines :

​

 

[Tempelridderen]

Frisians, Queen Charlotte and Anticosti probably not - Prince Edward Island is in though

still have not 100% decided on the outer Scot islands, will depend on free tags left after first runthrough

as for the Philippines :

​

Oh, that's nice.. Especially that the Sulu Archipelago has been included

 

[Tempelridderen]

OK i've done a rework to Siberia.

​

Region that is now part of Russia (above the red border line) had 26 provinces in Victoria. This reduces that down to 25, so a gain of one Province ID.

And the Trans-Siberian Railway can be built properly without having to detour through Yakutsk!

total additional provinces : -1

Balance remaining of Province IDs : 123

Oh no!! What have you done to Tanny Tuva?
...but I do like what you've planned for the eastern part (coastal area)

 

[OHgamer]

Oh no!! What have you done to Tanny Tuva?
...but I do like what you've planned for the eastern part (coastal area)

Please see the later Siberia maps posted about five pages or so back.

that map was a very early working.

 

[Tempelridderen]

What have been done regarding the Caucasus? The borders are wrong, and it doesn't reflect the landscape either.
What do you think of these suggestions?
-Dagestan (modern definition) is now 2 provinces instead of 4. (Derbent and Makhachkala)
-Used one of the free tags to create modern day Ingushetia.
-Changed Poti province in Georgia to Batumi to better reflect the Muslims living there.. Stretched the other provinces a bit.
-Added lots of details, changed borders

 

[OHgamer]

What have been done regarding the Caucasus? The borders are wrong, and it doesn't reflect the landscape either.
What do you think of these suggestions?
-Dagestan (modern definition) is now 2 provinces instead of 4. (Derbent and Makhachkala)
-Used one of the free tags to create modern day Ingushetia.
-Changed Poti province in Georgia to Batumi to better reflect the Muslims living there.. Stretched the other provinces a bit.
-Added lots of details, changed borders

You really should check out the later posts in this thread. See the map of Europe in post 337 which has the Caucasus region as we envision it in Clio. If you have suggestions from there, please base it on the map posted there, not on the base Victoria map, as we have moved well past Europe already.

 

[Tempelridderen]

Oh I see I'm lagging behind here...

 

[OHgamer]

Oh I see I'm lagging behind here...

no biggie, but for us it is going to be a lot easier to refer to new ideas if you refer to the maps as we've drawn them instead of the base Victoria map, since we are not using that in any case, but drawing the map from a new, accurate world map.

 

[Gaius Marius I]

no biggie, but for us it is going to be a lot easier to refer to new ideas if you refer to the maps as we've drawn them instead of the base Victoria map, since we are not using that in any case, but drawing the map from a new, accurate world map.

Might be worth the time to link all the current versions of the various nations/regions/continents up for discussion, in the first post. That way those joining the discussion late can find the right map to critique and comment upon.