Draco Rexus said:
yes it maks sense but unfortunately that part of the game cannot be modded so you have to ask paradox to fix it, im afraid.
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yes it maks sense but unfortunately that part of the game cannot be modded so you have to ask paradox to fix it, im afraid.
Whit_Liggett said:
Any full strength armored division is a devastating force. The Waffen SS were fundamentally no different than a regular unit except that they got the pick of the available equipment and personnel. Up until the very end, they were almost always near full strength. This is the point someone else already mentioned.
Whit_Liggett said:
Its amazing to me how you, and/or this program you watched, could talk about the end of Hitler's regime without ever mentioning the Soviet Red Army. Ask any German soldier who survived the final assaults on Hitler's Reich by the Soviet Tank Armies in '45, and he'll be able to tell you all you want to know about a "devastating armored force".
With regards to Ed's post: Its interesting that at the end of the war the Germans didn't want anything more than the western Allies capturing them, rather than the Soviets (according to Beevor, and others). Germany's defeat would have happened with or without the western Allies, but I think we should be grateful that the USSR didn't sweep through all of Europe. At least I am, and I live in Sweden.
By the same token it would have taken decidedly longer without the western Allies and we should not forget their contribution to the Soviet war machine either (I have found numbers for only a couple of types of aircraft, as an example, but they received at least 10000 aircraft from the UK and the US - that's a lot of planes!). As with everything else in life its not just 'either or', its both.
By the same token it would have taken decidedly longer without the western Allies and we should not forget their contribution to the Soviet war machine either (I have found numbers for only a couple of types of aircraft, as an example, but they received at least 10000 aircraft from the UK and the US - that's a lot of planes!). As with everything else in life its not just 'either or', its both.
Please keep the Post on Topic!!!
Many of us wait with great anticipation for info. on the CORE release, and read these progress threads with interest. Please discuss the SS somewhere else!
Many of us wait with great anticipation for info. on the CORE release, and read these progress threads with interest. Please discuss the SS somewhere else!
just a suggestion, do a sticky, close it and ONLY write info in it. But do it like at least once a month, with % completed or something. This way, to be honest, sucks. We have no idea what the devil is going on, and frankly its hard to maintain interest when you have no idea what is going on, and how far there is to a release.
But the problem is that we don't exactly know how far we are from a release... We could at least try to divide the work into different sections (research, coding, internal testing, etc or whatever) and specify which such section we're currently in. Giving a date (or even an approximation) is just setting things up for disappointment. I don't think anyone on the team wants to feel rushed to get things done by a certain date, but prefer to work things out as they come along.
It is an arderous task we have - rewriting entire files more or less from scratch is extremely time consuming (and often mind-numbingly boring). Myself I haven't played a single game of HoI2 for fun since I started working with CORE a couple of months or so ago so you can rest assured that any time I set off for HoI is CORE related (brainstorming new ideas, research, coding or testing). I haven't really played Stony Road either, but from what little I gather of it I'm pretty sure CORE goes a lot further in modifying the game (but I could be wrong there, of course).
On the other hand, questions like "when's it gonna be released?" doesn't stress me out either, I'm happy to try and give some kind of answer. I know what I have to do and I won't make a final submittal until I am 100% done. Then there are bugs and things that might not work well or be balanced, but that's for post-release.
Once the first version is out its probably going to be easier to set approximate dates for bug-fixes and the like, at least.
We could at least try to divide the work into different sections (research, coding, internal testing, etc or whatever) and specify which such section we're currently in. Giving a date (or even an approximation) is just setting things up for disappointment. I don't think anyone on the team wants to feel rushed to get things done by a certain date, but prefer to work things out as they come along.It is an arderous task we have - rewriting entire files more or less from scratch is extremely time consuming (and often mind-numbingly boring). Myself I haven't played a single game of HoI2 for fun since I started working with CORE a couple of months or so ago so you can rest assured that any time I set off for HoI is CORE related (brainstorming new ideas, research, coding or testing). I haven't really played Stony Road either, but from what little I gather of it I'm pretty sure CORE goes a lot further in modifying the game (but I could be wrong there, of course).
On the other hand, questions like "when's it gonna be released?" doesn't stress me out either, I'm happy to try and give some kind of answer. I know what I have to do and I won't make a final submittal until I am 100% done. Then there are bugs and things that might not work well or be balanced, but that's for post-release.
Once the first version is out its probably going to be easier to set approximate dates for bug-fixes and the like, at least.
ashbery76 said:
I agree. Personally I feel the best way to model this (technical considerations notwithstanding) would be to add a separate "elite manpower" pool for *every* country. Each division would require a small amount of EMP to represent the need for good officers, leaders, and technical personnel. Elite formations such as commando infantry, armor, and air units have higher EMP requirements. As the EMP pool gets depleted, formations will start getting less than their full requirement of EMP and receive a quality penalty.
This way we can model not only SS formations, but also the Soviet guards units, or even the inability of Japan to maintain pilot quality through the course of the war.
The idea of elite manpower may not be politically correct, but the quality of the fighting men has a very real effect in war. According to Anthony Beevor, Russians in Stalingrad noticed they were not fighting the same Germans as they fought in 1941. As Hitler bitterly proclaims in the movie "Downfall", the best Germans were dead already.
unfortunatly, that isn't really possible from a code side, besides that the SS was only one thing - well equppied fanatics. They took very high casulties, higher then the average wehrmacht unit, which surely isn't because they were particular good at fighting...
If you look at their leaders, most are old nazi members, Sepp Dietrich was a sergant, not an officer - yet he made it to SS-General, without additional training. the SS was good at holding desperate positions because they never knew when a retreat would be a good idea - they had noone who could tell them.
If you look at their leaders, most are old nazi members, Sepp Dietrich was a sergant, not an officer - yet he made it to SS-General, without additional training. the SS was good at holding desperate positions because they never knew when a retreat would be a good idea - they had noone who could tell them.
Archangel85 said:
Here here, and that provides a perfect reason to give them an org bonus and a special status too. You're right about the separate manpower though, unless you fancy a huge conversion of one of the main resources :rofl: Who needs to model the use of oil, when we've got elite manpower values!?
I'm a game developer and I know it is extremely non-trivial to add a major resource category to such a complex game. (did you mean to suggest the code base was even available to modify?)
Just for fantasy's sake though, I'm quite enamoured with the elite manpower idea and I'd like to expand on it. Think of EMP as a "quality" resource. This quality should be selectable for both new formations and formations under repair.
The trade offs around quality are specific to the present conditions of your country. If you have high industry, moderate manpower with high quality like the western allies, you might want to build up airpower (assuming that is fixed to become more effective). As Germany, with medium industry, initially high manpower with high quality, it makes sense to build more elite land units. Soviet Union, with high industry, high manpower with initially low quality, will want to sacrifice quality to build a large number of land units. Japan is in an interesting position with medium industry, medium manpower of medium quality. It is forced to fight both the land war in China and air/naval war against USA. It has little elite manpower to spare for elite land units such as armor, and in fact will be hard pressed to repair its air units with high quality manpower.
Elite manpower is also great for modeling events such as the Great Patriotic War. The Soviet Union should start getting its EMP really after it goes to war with Germany and starts losing. Soviet effectiveness would then increase smoothly over the first 2-3 years rather than as a one off event.
Another use of EMP might be to model the decline of Nationalist China against the rise of Communist China. Nationalist China expends what little EMP it has fighting the Japanese, while the Communist ideological advantage gives them relatively more EMP. A small number of highly effective mountain units give Communists their mountain redoubts to start with. Once they capture a few provinces, they make better use of the local manpower than the nationalists did, and the whole thing just snowballs from there...
Just for fantasy's sake though, I'm quite enamoured with the elite manpower idea and I'd like to expand on it. Think of EMP as a "quality" resource. This quality should be selectable for both new formations and formations under repair.
The trade offs around quality are specific to the present conditions of your country. If you have high industry, moderate manpower with high quality like the western allies, you might want to build up airpower (assuming that is fixed to become more effective). As Germany, with medium industry, initially high manpower with high quality, it makes sense to build more elite land units. Soviet Union, with high industry, high manpower with initially low quality, will want to sacrifice quality to build a large number of land units. Japan is in an interesting position with medium industry, medium manpower of medium quality. It is forced to fight both the land war in China and air/naval war against USA. It has little elite manpower to spare for elite land units such as armor, and in fact will be hard pressed to repair its air units with high quality manpower.
Elite manpower is also great for modeling events such as the Great Patriotic War. The Soviet Union should start getting its EMP really after it goes to war with Germany and starts losing. Soviet effectiveness would then increase smoothly over the first 2-3 years rather than as a one off event.
Another use of EMP might be to model the decline of Nationalist China against the rise of Communist China. Nationalist China expends what little EMP it has fighting the Japanese, while the Communist ideological advantage gives them relatively more EMP. A small number of highly effective mountain units give Communists their mountain redoubts to start with. Once they capture a few provinces, they make better use of the local manpower than the nationalists did, and the whole thing just snowballs from there...
GoldenPanda said:
Paradox (wisely) doesn't give us the code to modify. We are limited to things that we can change in data tables, configuration files, or graphic files. We can add an infantry unit through the infantry data tables, but we are limited to only 10 units per unit type due to a hard coded limit. That has driven our unit choices. In an ideal world we would have country specific infantry models that would take into account differences between the armed forces of individual countries. MDow
Update
I just wanted to give everyone an update since I have seen a number of posts wanting to know status.
It shouldn't be long. We have encountered some problems and also a lot of us have had some things in our personal lives which have effected our time availability which have caused some unexpected delays. Here is an idea of some of the things that you can expect in the first release of CORE for HoI2...
Revised Naval Tech Tree
Revised Air Tech Tree
Revised Land Tech Tree
Revised Armor Tech Tree
Reworked OOBs for every country
New events
Additional countries
New graphics
This is just a brief look at the things that are being finished up and internally tested. Hopefully we can have a product that y'all can play in not too long. MDow
MateDow said:
JRaup said:
Which one to believe. "Not too long" or "July at the earliest".
Hrrrmmmmm
Hoovie said:Which one to believe. "Not too long" or "July at the earliest".
Hrrrmmmmm
Oh come on...July isn't that far away, just over a month.
You guys at CORE have allways done a great job an well thought out. Waiting till July isn't long.
GoldenPanda said:
But if you start siphoning off your best troops to form elite units, your basic unit's quality will suffer. That would need to be incorportated somehow.