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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Erik theNoble

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UAC/10s have better range and less recoil, but 3 UAC/20s can destroy any undamaged mech in one salvo, even assaults. Which do you prefer?
 

Doctor Machete

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I prefer the 3xUAC20, a 4xUAC20 or a 5xUAC20, but the 4xUAC10 is better IMO due to range. But rather than a 4xUAC10 I'd use a 5xUAC2 3xERLL, which can run cooler, more range and better killing power against most targets.
 

Cerberus78

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I like best 2x gauss++, 3x uac2++ and 2 ERLL++. Adding TTS+++ and 5 double heat sinks. Amazing performance. 10 shot alpha out to 500 meter range. Center core or headcap most targets at extreme range. Would go 4x uac10 if i dont have gauss available.
 

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I'm working on a build with 4xUAC5 and 4 Lasers for a total of 12 projectiles (or 8 projectiles for continuous fire).
 

Corraidhin

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I loaded my Anni with as many AC5s and UAC5S as I had, along with ammo for 15 volleys and TTS+++. It lived up to it's name. I prefer a Master tactician on board to fire in phase 2 initiative and give best PS performance on CT.
 

Cerberus78

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If i understand this comparison right, it only considers a mechs pure alpha strike power. I wish there was a tool to compare mech builds taking into accout all tactical aspects as well. Like range, speed, heat management and the pilot sitting inside.
A slow mech like the annahilator will likely only reach its strike range after the battle is already desided if it only carries short range weapons like uac20. And if you carry 3+ of those you can only deliver that big alpha effectivly every second round due to recoil and heat.
 
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Corraidhin

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If i understand this comparison right, it only considers a mechs pure alpha strike power. I wish there was a tool to compare mech builds taking into accout all tactical aspects as well. Like range, speed, heat management and the pilot sitting inside.
A slow mech like the annahilator will likely only reach its strike range after the battle is already desided if it only carries short range weapons like uac20. And if you carry 3+ of those you can only deliver that big alpha effectivly every second round due to recoil and heat.
This encapsulates why I prefer the AC5/UAC5s, you can really ruin someone's day from a very pleasant range. And the ruin someone else's day in the next turn.
 

MarkDey

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If i understand this comparison right, it only considers a mechs pure alpha strike power.
Sure, but it's a great reference point to start making decisions for all of the other considerations.
 

Doctor Machete

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If i understand this comparison right, it only considers a mechs pure alpha strike power. I wish there was a tool to compare mech builds taking into accout all tactical aspects as well. Like range, speed, heat management and the pilot sitting inside.
That comparison is not "the" answer but a data chart that must be interpreted. All mechs have the same speed, you can see how much heat generates each mech with the alpha, and you know what range each weapon has (maybe not exactly but at least approximately).

For example the 4xGauss 4xERML seems pretty good both for headcapping and CT core but it has the lowest armor of the bunch and it is a hot oven with 70 alpha heat, and on top of that the range is better than medium range but not particularly good. The 5xUAC2 3xERLL has worse headcap/CTcore performance with a maxed pilot but not a lot worse, has better range, more armor and runs way cooler, with 1 heat alpha.

Also the chart doesn't consider pure alpha strike power. A mech can have a superior alpha and show very bad results due to spread.

And if you carry 3+ of those you can only deliver that big alpha effectivly every second round due to recoil and heat.
Recoil Penalty can be easily negated by TTS+++ and very often you'll need one less round to kill a mech. It may be worthwhile to run hotter if the killing power gets much better, and it does, but the main issue is not that but the need to get closer, meaning it will take you more time to fire and switch targets, and when you do you'll be potentially more vulnerable. If that kind of killing power was at 450m range or the range was the same 270m but could be found in a fast medium mech then it would be a very different story, it would be pretty good, maybe OP.
 
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Cerberus78

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As an answer to the OP I would Just say that loading an assault mech with only short range weapons is not smart. You have to get into position to fire and thats not gonna work when you dont have manuverability/speed. Thats why i would never go all in on ac20 on an assuault mech. Mixing in 1 big gun makes good sence for the close encounter.
 

foamyesque

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As an answer to the OP I would Just say that loading an assault mech with only short range weapons is not smart. You have to get into position to fire and thats not gonna work when you dont have manuverability/speed. Thats why i would never go all in on ac20 on an assuault mech. Mixing in 1 big gun makes good sence for the close encounter.
I would, because you drop a lance. You can cover for the range problem with other 'mechs.
 

Doctor Machete

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As an answer to the OP I would Just say that loading an assault mech with only short range weapons is not smart. You have to get into position to fire and thats not gonna work when you dont have manuverability/speed. Thats why i would never go all in on ac20 on an assuault mech. Mixing in 1 big gun makes good sence for the close encounter.
I don't think mixing something like a UAC20 into an otherwise long range setup is a good idea. Now you need more armor because you're willing to enter short range, and likely you'll want some TTS for the recoil. And you need to be willing because for the most part you can choose at what range do you fight, you can have the tools for that (JJs). Mixing ranges your mech will be less effective at long range because the UAC20 is dead weight and also at short range because you could use shorter range more efficient weapons.

Just in case note I'm talking about actual used ranges we're going to use. You might have UAC2s in a medium range build along MLs, just because it is very efficient and not fire them ever in that loadout at its native maximum range.

So imo whether short range weapons or long range ones going all the way makes much more sense to me. You'll be able to optimize your loadout for your desired range of engagement, because (again) you can choose your range, that's the key. One could argue doing it requires JJs and that takes a toll, same as armor; but I'd respond that it doesn't, because JJs are good not only defensively but they also have very good offensive value.
 

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Sorry, I'm going to play the dummy.

Can someone explain what I'm looking at here?

Is the bottom cumulative damage for an alpha strike?
The left side is a damage reduction value or a chance to hit the head? What are the step downs? For ballistic weapons, do you incur an accuracy penalty as each individual weapon fires (recoil effect)?

I use a 4x UAC10++ Anni with TTS, enough ammo for 12-14 alphas and maxed out armor. Just trying to understand what penalties are incurred during a round and what are incurred between rounds. Pretty good head capper and will CT most mechs in a single alpha if I'm in a hurry. Add a Rangefinder +++ and LOS and I can shoot before the opfor even knows I'm there. Want to understand the mechanics better.

Is this from a particular software package?
1603340235564.png
 

foamyesque

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I use a 4x UAC10++ Anni with TTS, enough ammo for 12-14 alphas and maxed out armor.
I don't understand why people carry this much ammo. You're firing off 1t of the stuff every round, but with that kind of damage potential I really doubt you're ever near depleting it. 8 rounds is usually ample if you're dropping full lances, even fewer if you're abusing called shots. That'd save you four tons, which you could put into any other system you choose, and I suspect you could lower it even further. The only time I'd ever consider more would be for LRM machines.
 
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MarkDey

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I don't understand why people carry this much ammo.
I generally agree, but considering that once this mech runs out of ammo, it becomes significantly less useful, I can understand why someone would want 10 or 12 rounds worth of ammo.
 

Doctor Machete

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Is the bottom cumulative damage for an alpha strike?

The left side is a damage reduction value or a chance to hit the head? What are the step downs? For ballistic weapons, do you incur an accuracy penalty as each individual weapon fires (recoil effect)?
X axis is damage done to the head (so yes, it is cumulative), and Y axis chance to do that damage. In this case only showing from a bit less than 61 up to a bit more than 153, which are the relevant thresholds for headcapping, and because of that I crop the chart to 55-155 dmg dealt to the head. Just take an simple loadout like the 4xGauss and you'll see the 71% to headcap at 0-20% DR, but once you need more than one hit to headcap chances drop dramatically, now you have four tries but needing two hits to land.

Ballistic weapons don't have penalties between different weapons from the same salvo, so that's irrelevant. If you fire a 3xUAC20 none of the the UACs will have recoil. They'll do next turn but not this one, you can use TTS+++ for that or just not fire.

I do take into account Diminishing Returns, so first hit from the UAC20 has ~18% and the second hit has ~10%. I also do take into account Roll Correction, that 95% base chance is actually ~97.1%, but not crits. Also I don't take into account other locations being destroyed first, like for example if you try to headcap a light mech with a 3xUAC20 it's quite likely you'll CT core it before you actually manage the headcap.

I generally agree, but considering that once this mech runs out of ammo, it becomes significantly less useful, I can understand why someone would want 10 or 12 rounds worth of ammo.
How many mechs do you expect a mech like this is going to kill? something like seven, ten, o more like 3-4 if you're using it along other mechs and not as a lone wolf?. I think 12-14 salvos is overkill and a waste unless you're soloing or with some other type of self-handicap (like no Precision Shot or Vigilance).

Also I think max armor is a waste too. If you need that much armor with a powerful long range mech in a four mech lance then IMO you're probably doing something wrong. And if you remove JJs, TTS and all extra cooling while maxing out armor you have enough for 13 salvos but you'll generate 66 heat per alpha in neutral, not very good.
 

LongRange

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[QUOTE="Doctor Machete, post: 27038148, member: 987359"


How many mechs do you expect a mech like this is going to kill? something like seven, ten, o more like 3-4 if you're using it along other mechs and not as a lone wolf?. I think 12-14 salvos is overkill and a waste unless you're soloing or with some other type of self-handicap (like no Precision Shot or Vigilance).

Also I think max armor is a waste too. If you need that much armor with a powerful long range mech in a four mech lance then IMO you're probably doing something wrong. And if you remove JJs, TTS and all extra cooling while maxing out armor you have enough for 13 salvos but you'll generate 66 heat per alpha in neutral, not very good.
[/QUOTE]

I agree that 12-14 alphas is probably too many, but it’s a little peace of mind going into 4+ skull missions where the opfors are mostly Heavy and Assault Classes that sometimes come in waves. If I lose a mech to a lucky shot, then the Anni can still provide knockout punches until the opfor is whittled down to a more even basis.

The max frontal armor is probably overkill, but it’s a comfort zone from running lights in the early missions. More armor = more pilot survival = fewer structural repairs. Since armor repairs are free, this is a cost savings at a critical time during the career/campaign, in my mind. I generally don’t have to worry about ammo explosions either, even in the Assault units. I’ve used JJs in Assaults before, an earlier play through had them on all my Assault lance. But in the heaviest class, they don’t give you much more mobility and exact a significant weight and heat penalty. I do keep them in the HGNs though. Seems like the right thing todo for some reason.